Scottish Independence

[chrisp65]

The polls are running at between 25% to 33% for independence in Scotland. Even with the Commonwealth games and all that I just don't see them getting over the magic 50% mark in the next two years.

The dropping of the 'plan B' question and just going yes / no has been a good tactic for cameron.

[The_Rev]

[snowychap]

A good thing for Labour surely? What sort of future can the SNP and Salmond have after a defeat in this plebiscite?

The former? I don't think they've hung their hats solely on independence (generally rather than just this vote), have they? So, I would guess carrying on slightly differently - perhaps pushing wholeheartedly for much greater devolution.

The latter? A comfy retirement punctuated by the odd appearance on The Morning Line and a weekly racing column.

[CI]

What's in it for us if we retain ownership ??

[chrisp65]

What's in it for us if we retain ownership ??

ready access to driving drizzle and battered confectionery

[Ads]

Of course an SNP victory could be equally game changing for Labour in what is left of the UK.

[leviramsey]

Well the Swiss have a population just over 7.5 million with a great deal of direct democracy - or referenda. Given their neutrality, independence, standard of living with few natural resources and general "good bloke" international status, I don't think they are finding their citzenry too much of a barrier to informed decision making.

You could certainly argue that the "experts" have made such a dogs arse of most, *cough*, democratic countries, that the wisdom of crowds really isn't so bad after all. The elite sneer 'populism', the people say 'democracy'.

The same is roughly true of the states in the US which have implemented initiative petition (where a sufficient number of citizen signatures puts a question on the ballot; I don't see the point of legislative referral referenda (I'm not counting constitutional amendments as such referrals)).

Massachusetts' inititative petitions

1920 - redefine beer and cider as "nonintoxicating liquors" and thus exempt them from the Commonwealth's Prohibition law (passed)

1926 - modify veterans' preference law (IIRC, this measure would have removed preferences for war veterans in government hiring) (failed)

1928 - allow sporting events on Sundays (passed)

1930 - repeal the Commonwealth's Prohibition law (passed)

1930 - ban animal trapping (passed)

1932 - legalize chiropractic medicine (failed)

1932 - regulate party nominations by using the primary election method (passed)

1938 - biennial instead of quadrennial legislative sessions (passed)

1938 - require that public taxicab stands be usable by all taxis (passed)

1942 - legalize abortion (failed)

1946 - establish an old age pension in the Commonwealth, in addition to Social Security (failed)

1948 - legalize contraception (failed)

1948 - right to work/open shop (failed)

1948 - regulation of election of union officers (failed)

1948 - regulation of strikes (failed)

1950 - establish payments to blind persons over 63 (passed)

1950 - establish a state lottery (failed)

1950 - classification system in compulsory motor vehicle insurance (failed)

1958 - legalize pensions for public employees (passed)

1964 - reduction of the power of the Governor's Council (passed)

1968 - establish process for calling a Constitutional Convention (passed)

1974 - allow taxes raised for building highways to be spent on public transit (passed)

1974 - regulate campaign contributions and expenditures (passed)

1976 - Commonwealth to take over electricity generation and distribution via the Massachusetts Power Authority (failed)

1976 - ban guns with barrels shorter than 16 inches (failed)

1976 - 5 cent deposit on beverage containers (failed)

1976 - allow peak load pricing of electricity (failed)

1980 - cap local property taxes at 2.5% (passed)

1980 - limit taxes and increase Commonwealth share of education costs (failed)

1982 - ban construction of nuclear waste disposal structures (passed)

1986 - limit state tax raises and institute a surtax on high incomes (passed)

1986 - require clean ups of toxic waste dumps (passed)

1986 - mail-in voter registration (failed)

1988 - repeal prevailing wage law (failed)

1988 - regulate treatment of farm animals (failed)

1988 - ban nuclear power plants (failed)

1990 - limit government use of outside consultants (failed)

1990 - graduated income taxation and regulate user fees charged by state agencies (failed)

1990 - change rules for political party formation and nomination processes (passed)

1990 - regulations for local aid funding (passed)

1992 - increase taxes on cigarettes and chewing tobacco (passed)

1992 - public reporting of corporate tax returns (passed)

1992 - require all packaging to be recyclable (failed)

1992 - tax on oils and hazardous materials (failed)

1994 - limit spending on advocacy for initiative petitions (failed)

1994 - term limits for state legislature and US congress (passed; ruled unconstitutional by the courts)

1994 - legalize retail store opening on Sunday morning and certain holidays (passed)

1994 - graduated income taxation (failed)

1994 - change funding for state highways (passed)

1994 - ban local rent control (passed)

1996 - ban certain animal traps and the use of dogs in hunting bears and bobcats (passed)

1998 - provide for public funding of political campaigns (passed; the legislature has since never appropriated funds)

1998 - cut income tax rates (passed; the act would gradually cut the rate from 5.95% to 5%, but Governor Mitt Romney would later overrule the last step of the cut from 5.3%)

2000 - ban dog racing or any contest involving betting on the speed or agility of dogs (failed)

2000 - repeal income tax on certain types of income (passed)

2000 - single payer health care (failed)

2000 - income tax credit for road tolls (failed)

2000 - bar felons from voting (passed)

2000 - make charitable contributions tax deductible (passed)

2000 - use fines and proceeds from asset forfeitures tied to drug cases to fund drug treatment programs (failed)

2002 - repeal income tax (failed)

2002 - limit multilingual education (passed)

2006 - allow food stores to sell wine and beer (failed)

2006 - ballot fusion (failed)

2006 - allow collective bargaining of state-supported child-care providers (failed)

2008 - repeal income tax (failed)

2008 - marijuana decriminalization (passed)

2008 - ban dog racing (passed)

2010 - repeal sales tax on alcoholic beverages (passed)

2010 - repeal affordable housing law (failed)

2010 - cut sales tax to 3% (failed)

2012 - require vehicle manufacturers with franchised dealers in Massachusetts to make all diagnostic and repair information available to independent mechanics

2012 - legalize physician-assisted suicide

2012 - legalize medical marijuana

[CI]

ready access to driving drizzle and battered confectionery

That's on tap in Corby

[Jimzk5]

What do I like about Scotland - some great golf courses, smoked salmon, Stornaway black pudding, black Angus beef, that's about it. I'm not too fussed if they go. The women are monsters generally, the weather is shite and I'm not sure what else they bring to the party?

Shortbread,

What do I like about Scotland - some great golf courses, smoked salmon, Stornaway black pudding, black Angus beef, that's about it. I'm not too fussed if they go. The women are monsters generally, the weather is shite and I'm not sure what else they bring to the party?

Shortbread, Buckfast & heroin.

[snowychap]

Shortbread, Buckfast & heroin.

Are those the next most popular children's names after William and Kate?

[Ads]

Are those the next most popular children's names after William and Kate?

Throw in some cold chips and its a Glaswegian salad.

[CI]

Oh I forgot square sausage, battered burgers and horse tranquilliser

Buckfast by the way is brewed in Devon & hauled up the M6 to the Orks

[peterms]

ready access to driving drizzle and battered confectionery

Annual rainfall in Edinburgh and B'ham are almost the same.

But you're less likely to find deep-fried pizza in B'ham. For a tribute to the chippies of Embra, check

[The_Rev]

Edinburgh is currently my favourite city in the country. I absolutely adore the place.

[coda]

For a tribute to the chippies of Embra, check

Nice to see Alan Hutton keeping busy.

[bickster]

I just don't get it, Scottish Independence. What will it achieve? Will it be total? Can't really see how that can happen, they will surely have to join the EU, and as a condition of membership the Euro, which begs two questions really.

1. What is the point in swapping one government for another, neither of which is Scottish?
   
2. Who in their right mind in 2014 would vote to say, yeah lets join the Euro?
   

I think the English people saying why don't they get a say are missing the point of independence though, we don't get a say because it's not us that wants to leave, it really doesn't, shouldn't and won't ever work like that.

[peterms]

I just don't get it, Scottish Independence. What will it achieve? Will it be total? Can't really see how that can happen, they will surely have to join the EU, and as a condition of membership the Euro, which begs two questions really.

1. What is the point in swapping one government for another, neither of which is Scottish?
   
   
2. Who in their right mind in 2014 would vote to say, yeah lets join the Euro?
   

I think the English people saying why don't they get a say are missing the point of independence though, we don't get a say because it's not us that wants to leave, it really doesn't, shouldn't and won't ever work like that.

Nicola Sturgeon, being interviewed on the BBC has clearly stated that Scotland will retain Sterling post independence while gaining full fiscal powers.

(From the Yes campaign's Facebook page)

Which looks like relying on England's central bank and its monetary policy. I'm not sure they've thought this through.

[Ads]

Edinburgh is currently my favourite city in the country. I absolutely adore the place.

The poor buggers and that bloody tram fiasco. Proof alone that Scotland is not ready for independance.

[peterms]

The poor buggers and that bloody tram fiasco.

Don't get me started on that. I'll be here all night.

[bickster]

(From the Yes campaign's Facebook page)

Which looks like relying on England's central bank and its monetary policy. I'm not sure they've thought this through.

erm... that is just... not independence. Who controls the money controls the country.