snowychap Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 You could certainly argue that the "experts" have made such a dogs arse of most, *cough*, democratic countries, that the wisdom of crowds really isn't so bad after all. That would be the wisdom of crowds (18+)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markeefc Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I think the English people saying why don't they get a say are missing the point of independence though, we don't get a say because it's not us that wants to leave, it really doesn't, shouldn't and won't ever work like that. I agree with what you are saying re the Scots voting on whether they want independence or not, but should they do so as in every divorce the other side gets the opportunity to say what they want once they part. As we are talking about the break up of the country we live in, and all the things that go along with it, I think I have a right to indicate what is acceptable to me, which I don't think can be achieved through a normal parliamentary election. I just think it should not be forgotten that the Act of Union affects all parts of the UK and N. Ireland but currently the politicians are only focussing on what people in one part of it want (or don't) and a proportion of my taxes are going to be spent by the British Government on a campaign against independence under the assumption, rightly or wrongly, that non-Scotland residents want a no campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2012 I agree with what you are saying re the Scots voting on whether they want independence or not, but should they do so as in every divorce the other side gets the opportunity to say what they want once they part. As we are talking about the break up of the country we live in, and all the things that go along with it, I think I have a right to indicate what is acceptable to me, which I don't think can be achieved through a normal parliamentary election. I just think it should not be forgotten that the Act of Union affects all parts of the UK and N. Ireland but currently the politicians are only focussing on what people in one part of it want (or don't) and a proportion of my taxes are going to be spent by the British Government on a campaign against independence under the assumption, rightly or wrongly, that non-Scotland residents want a no campaign. I don't really think that's practical though is it? I mean there would be so many questions n the ballot. Independence Yes / No, is fairly simple but Retain Monetary Union Yes / Np? Joint Defence Yes / No. Joint Border Patrols Yes / No the list would be endless. Where would it stop? After watching a bit of some woman on Newsnight last night it does appear that the only way to describe the SNP is a bunch of cheeky twunts who really do want to eat all the cake. They want it all their own way but don't really want independaence either because they want to be part of Sterling still.... thats changed btw it was the Euro or one of the Scandi currencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I wouldn't mind getting out with them judging by the way things are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Had a meeting with two level headed jocks today. They both confirmed they will be voting NO ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2012 it does appear that the only way to describe the SNP is a bunch of cheeky twunts who really do want to eat all the cake. They want it all their own way ... This can be abbreviated to "politicians" without losing any of the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I thought it was who controls the media controls the country ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 Had a meeting with two level headed jocks today. They both confirmed they will be voting NO ! I've not spoken to any right-minded person who would do otherwise, which is why the SNP are basing their stance on Braveheart rather than any actual policies. I know it's early in proceedings and some might say its too early to know all the ins and outs of what they're standing on but I can't wait for the detail. I'm almost tempted to move back home so I can vote against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've not spoken to any right-minded person who would do otherwise, which is why the SNP are basing their stance on Braveheart rather than any actual policies. I know it's early in proceedings and some might say its too early to know all the ins and outs of what they're standing on but I can't wait for the detail. I'm almost tempted to move back home so I can vote against. Yes, it does seem that the SNP are basically the Scots version of UKIP - who should perhaps change their name to EIP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've long viewed the Tories as the (possibly Southern) English National Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't think that would a be a terribly accurate view of the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've long viewed the Tories as the (possibly Southern) English National Party. Officially they are the Conservative and Unionist party so the Union is pretty fundamental to their beliefs. They are also aligned with the Ulster Unionists (in fact, the UUP helped keep John Major's government from collapsing mid-term) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I really don't understand that view of the tories. Yes, they might give the impression that they are the party for the south-east of England, but they are very much a unionist bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 If you were going to tie a geographical identity to the Tories, it'd be 'the British party' - a considerable part of the party is founded a pretty distinct patriotism. They aren't especially 'for' the South East, either - they're for anyone with a bit of money in their pocket, countrywide. Even if you argue that their makeup has traditionally been one founded of the South East, thats also true of the other major players, particularly in recent years but generally always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 yep, agree with all the above, they are a 'British' party, even if that might look to some Celtic fringe types like pushing a brand of englishness on the rest of the country. see what happens when you try and knock out a short post there Levi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2012 Levi does have a point though. Whatever the Conservatives' actual policies and beliefs, their 'natural constituency' is generally perceived to be England (and southern England at that). Wales and Scotland are traditionally Labour strongholds, and I'm pretty sure that those countries see the Tories as more English than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Kinda agree, but I don't think geography is the main factor in who the Conservative party represent, even though it looks that way. London isnt a Tory stronghold, even if they have some very safe seats there. I think Boris got elected because he is Boris, not because he is a Tory. They are the pro business, pro high earner party and those voters tend to live in the home counties and the leafier suburbs of Cheshire, Staffordshire & Warwickshire which act as 'home counties' for Manchester & Birmingham. Those of us in England who dont vote Tory feel just as distant from them as the most working class families from Glasgow do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 They are the pro business, pro high earner party In fact many of their policies aren't very good for business, especially small business, and manufacturing. They are much more suited to the sectors that don't produce any value, such as landowners and financiers (last year, financiers became the majority donors to the conservative party). Business however tends to ally itself with the tories, partly for historical, partly for cultural reasons. It may not be rational (as we famously saw with the letter signed by a selection of businessmen two years ago, praising policies which would clearly suck demand out of the economy, and which have now predictably savaged their firms' profits), but it's deeply felt, and largely immune to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 yep, agree with all the above, they are a 'British' party, even if that might look to some Celtic fringe types like pushing a brand of englishness on the rest of the country. see what happens when you try and knock out a short post there Levi LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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