Qwpzxjor1 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Would the Scottish be able to afford policing and hospitals if they went independent? I've seen Glasgow on a Saturday night.. that can't be cheap. And there surely aren't enough people in Scotland to make everything up in taxes. Yes, they have North Sea Oil but that's not going to keep them going for long, with no other exports. Be interesting to see how the vote goes, and how many people who vote actually know the implications of what they're doing and not just 'getting rid of the bastard english'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 How would border control work? That won't be easy. How does it work with USA and Canada, or the Newley created Baltic countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would be stunned if it was anything other than an open border. We would just draw up our own version of the Schengen Agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would be stunned if it was anything other than an open border. We would just draw up our own version of the Schengen Agreement. That would depend. If they went fully independent then no, it couldn't be an open border because England needs a a secure northern flank - the reason why we wanted the Union in the first place. If defence policy were to remain a common endeavour across the Island of Britain then I imagine you'd be right with the Schengen model...but that's not full independence. The really tricky one is the currency issue because as I see it they'd have three options: 1) Keep the pound but have no control over monetary policy which would - rightly - be set up to benefit the economies of the UK, not the Republic of Scotland. If the Euro crisis has shown anything it is that you can't have a common monetary unit without a common fiscal policy so full "independence" would be an illusion. 2) Adopt the Euro. No Scot in their right mind is going to vote to do that for the reasons above. 3) Float their own currency. This would entail all of the relevant financial and regulatory infrastructure being established and the new currency may not be looked on favourably by international credit markets - they'd start with a hefty debt of 150-200 billion pounds sterling from day one as the national debt is distributed so they take their fair share. Additionally assuming that Scotland would apply to join the EU then they would be under massive pressure not to do this, instead adopting the Euro from the off under the principle of ever closer union with the EU - no irony there of course. Instead of being "ruled" by remote London the orders would come from Brussels and Frankfurt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would be stunned if it was anything other than an open border. We would just draw up our own version of the Schengen Agreement. That would depend. If they went fully independent then no, it couldn't be an open border because England needs a a secure northern flank - the reason why we wanted the Union in the first place. Maybe when the uniob was formed, but is it such an issue now? I doubt North Korea are going to invade us via Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 14, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 14, 2012 I would be stunned if it was anything other than an open border. We would just draw up our own version of the Schengen Agreement. That would depend. If they went fully independent then no, it couldn't be an open border because England needs a a secure northern flank - the reason why we wanted the Union in the first place. Maybe when the uniob was formed, but is it such an issue now? I doubt North Korea are going to invade us via Glasgow. Who knows what the future holds for Europe... When thinking about conflict, you prepare for whatever the future may bring. We don't know that the northern flank will never be threatened, so we have to assume that it needs to be secured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Awol wrote: The_Rev wrote: I would be stunned if it was anything other than an open border. We would just draw up our own version of the Schengen Agreement. That would depend. If they went fully independent then no, it couldn't be an open border because England needs a a secure northern flank - the reason why we wanted the Union in the first place. Maybe when the uniob was formed, but is it such an issue now? I doubt North Korea are going to invade us via Glasgow. You think terrorism is less of a threat in 2012? It' doesnt have to be North Korea landing at Prestwick. But in any event, we already have a glaringly open border at Northern Ireland. You end up in Eire, perhaps by boat from a "dodgy" country, and simply walk across the border into NI for an internal flight to UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It would also benefit avfc if blues and west brom moved their clubs away from Birmingham. Doesn't mean villa fans want it to happen im sure a lot wouldnt mind the former moving away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It would also benefit avfc if blues and west brom moved their clubs away from Birmingham. Doesn't mean villa fans want it to happen im sure a lot wouldnt mind the former moving away The pleasure I get from beating them in Derbys is just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 They've actually decided to put it to a vote in 2014....this could be astounding if they vote to split from the U.K.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 They've actually decided to put it to a vote in 2014....this could be astounding if they vote to split from the U.K.... They haven't come out with much clear information yet on what they propose. Enter the EU? I understand that for new entrants, joining the dying Euro is a requirement (though date of joining can apparently be "always tomorrow"). Own currency? If they use sterling, it's like being in the Euro, but with zombie Osborne playing the Merkel role. Nightmarish. Nuclear weapons? The prospect of getting rid of them will gather plenty of support, but does Uncle Alex mean relocating them and still sheltering under Nato's nuclear umbrella? Still a bit short on answers to some pretty big questions like these. I suppose that's unsurprising. For the SNP, independence (from the UK, but not from anything much else) seems to be an end in itself; for others, it may be a possible means to an end. They just seem to think that whatever happens, it will be nicer if it has a tartan trim. Bit like painting the living room when the roof's falling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 They should just wait until after the 2015 General Election when the Tories are gone and the UK can rejoice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I find it interesting that they are going to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote. I must have missed where that was discussed? There I was thinking any important bits of legislature for the UK would get some sort of an airing before being 'fact'. Admittedly, since Bliar the involvement and importance of Parliament has been in decline, but I'd have thought we'd have had some basic discussion of the pro's and con's. The size of my country and the tax I need to pay are potentially about to be fundamentally changed. An English kid, that will be 16 and a bit in 2014 and living in Aberdeen will have a say, but i won't. I find that a little bit odd that it just 'happened' on a bit of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I find it interesting that they are going to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote. Alarming is the word I'd use, but fully agree with the rest of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I am more interested in how it would affect the armed forces . The majority of the SAS are sweatys for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think it would be pretty exciting if we split. They need us more than we need them IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I find it interesting that they are going to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote. I must have missed where that was discussed? There I was thinking any important bits of legislature for the UK would get some sort of an airing before being 'fact'. Admittedly, since Bliar the involvement and importance of Parliament has been in decline, but I'd have thought we'd have had some basic discussion of the pro's and con's. The size of my country and the tax I need to pay are potentially about to be fundamentally changed. An English kid, that will be 16 and a bit in 2014 and living in Aberdeen will have a say, but i won't. I find that a little bit odd that it just 'happened' on a bit of a deal. I gather they decided on this before being able to see the polling data, and it turns out most 16 and 17 y/os are against. Bit of a cock-up there. I have no problem with extending the vote to people of that age. There are millions older than that who are utter idiots and who have the right to vote, so why should some bright or even just not terminally stupid person be deprived a vote, when a slightly older complete numbskull can vote? Though thinking about it, we'd never have had the coalition government if that group of people couldn't vote, so my view is clearly an affront to democracy and I withdraw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Alarming is the word I'd use, but fully agree with the rest of your post. 16 year olds were given the vote over here in 2006. Most people agree it's been a positive thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Having spent some time in Scotland recently I've picked up a large concern by many around allowing 16 year old to vote. You are now starting to see small changes in the school system that are very pro Scotland. Things like Scottish children can now only be examined on Scottish authors when sitting gcse English, many examples like this see a very pro Scotland push to young school age children. It almost feels a little 1930s Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Having spent some time in Scotland recently I've picked up a large concern by many around allowing 16 year old to vote. You are now starting to see small changes in the school system that are very pro Scotland. Things like Scottish children can now only be examined on Scottish authors when sitting gcse English, many examples like this see a very pro Scotland push to young school age children. It almost feels a little 1930s Germany. Well, I don't see a connection between your first sentence and the rest. But on the rest, all countries teach and examine on things of interest to themselves. People taught in Perth don't know Herefordshire from Norfolk, and people taught in Redditch couldn't tell Glencoe from Cumbernauld. We are taught a laughably partial and tendentious view of history, politics, religion, just about everything. No point complaining that another country a few miles away does the same thing with a slightly different accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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