Could Noah's Ark hold all the animals?

[Chindie]

Well if refusing in particular to debate with posters like Brumerican and Chindie is classed as hypocrisy then so be it.

I really don't have to result to insults or mockery in a vain attempt to legitimise my point of view and for that I am glad.

As I said the people you hurt the most with derogatory comments are yourselves.

Your hypocrisy is in your picking and choosing what suits your desire to legitimise and solidify your faith using science and then rejecting the stuff you either find uncomfortably close to debasing your faith or, in some cases, straight up failing to understand and then taking that ignorant viewpoint as fact.

I wouldn't get on the high horse over not resorting to insults either - I'm man enough to admit I've mocked with glee and resorted to insults in exasperation and astonishment. Yet I also remember quite clearly being told by yourself, seemingly with glee also, that the end is nigh and we sinners would be eating humble pie as we're 'left behind' by the righteous and you'd be 'getting the last laugh'. I find that rather more disquieting than mere mockery.

I would also add that your ignorance and fudging of facts to suit your agenda hurt yourself, I suspect rather more than any poor show on my behalf.

[mjmooney]

All this invoking of Einstein, Fred Hoyle, etc. is disingenuous to say the least.

This thread is not about the existence or nonexistence of God - that's a separate argument. It's about the literal interpretation of the Bible: six days of creation, Noah's ark, etc.

Sure, there are some (reputable) scientists who believe in God - a minority for sure, but they exist. But I'll bet my mortgage that they are at best deists. They believe in some sort of First Cause, probably have opinions of good and evil, etc., but literalists? No way.

Here's old Albert A:

"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it".

"It is a good thing that this individual life has an end with all its conflicts and problems. … Those who brought about the belief that the individual continues to live after death must have been very sorry people indeed".

"A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never tolerant, and he is unable to be tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not successful. However, hatred leads to persecution when the might of the majority is behind it".

[Chindie]

The reason people lived longer in Genesis is because Adam was made perfect. Death entered the world with sin. Noah and the people of Genesis where close to the genetic line of Adam.

...try harder, will you, if you must continue this charade, or just give the game up, you've succeeded in nothing but making yourself look silly.

[regular_john]

The reason people lived longer in Genesis is because Adam was made perfect. Death entered the world with sin. Noah and the people of Genesis where close to the genetic line of Adam.

Adam was made perfect was he? Has the design of the human eye changed significantly since the garden of Eden then? I assume Adam wasn't burdened with an appendix? Did he ever bang his elbow? It couldn't have hurt as no perfect human would have an exposed ulnar nerve. Am I also to assume that, despite being hundreds of years old, Adam never once had problems urinating? In men past a certain age, urination becomes difficult due to benign prostatic hyperplasia, which squeezes the urethra.

The key thing is that none of these things have anything to do with disease, and therefore nothing to do with sin. They are all consequences of the poor 'design' of the human body.

[TheDon]

The key thing is that none of these things have anything to do with disease, and therefore nothing to do with sin. They are all consequences of the poor 'design' of the human body.

Could be explained by the need for excessive inbreeding in early generations causing severe mutations that deviated massively from the initial perfect design.

Although designing a species that has issues with inbreeding is pretty schoolboy too.

[Brumerican]

Back on topic.

Why is the thread titled in the form of a question anyway as it seems as if the OP already had their answer regardless ?

How did Noah get around all the continents collecting all the indigenous species by the way ?

Marsupials from Australia....Polar bears fro the Arctic etc etc ?

It seems like a logistical nightmare .

[limpid]

Water itself is a miracle... it's properties are like practically no other liquid we know of in the known Universe.

That's true of all liquids, or solids, or gases, or plasmas, or einstein-bose condensates, or elements, or their allotropes and compounds made from them,. If two liquids behaved the same, they would be the same liquid. How does that make water a miracle? Might as well claim everything is a miracle.

Of course you don't state what kind of water is a miracle. It's probably a mis-translation and I've probably not read the correct scripture to enlighten me that those words don't mean what they say.

[Kiwivillan]

Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently.

That is **** retarded. You're not a Watchtower mentalist are you?

[mjmooney]

Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently.

That is **** retarded. You're not a Watchtower mentalist are you?

Oh dear. Sorry Julie, but you must at least be used to it.

[steaknchips]

Bible skeptics have long raised this objection to the Flood story. How could one man and his sons travel to all corners of the globe collecting all the pairs of animals to preserve them through the coming Flood? How did he even know about them? It's a serious question and deserves a careful answer.

First, it is necessary to note that Noah was not told to gather the animals. He was commanded only to build the Ark, large enough for all the animals, and simply receive the animals when they arrived. "And of every living thing of all flesh, . . . two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive" (Genesis 6:19-20).

Next, we recognize that the pre-Flood geography and environment was very different from that at present. Hints in Scripture intimate a worldwide habitable climate, confirmed by warm weather plants and animals fossilized in all parts of the globe, indicating that animals were not segregated into polar and desert zones, but were represented in all areas. Animals today are able to thrive in a variety of habitats. We suspect that the recently created, more robust specimens before the Flood were even more adaptable and had no reason to isolate. Very likely, all of these areas were possibly connected as a single continent, with no mountain or ocean barriers to hinder migration. Such varied zones resulted from the Flood and did not exist before.

Third, it has been noted that essentially all land animals possess a marvelous ability to sense imminent danger and migrate to avoid it. Many are the tales of unusual animal behavior and migration to safety in the hours before the recent Asian tsunami of December 2004. Likewise, large segments of the elk herd on Mount St. Helens all migrated to the mountain's south flank in the few days before the May 18, 1980, eruption, thus avoiding the northward directed blast. Some animals migrate yearly, but sometimes generations lapse between utilization of these migratory instincts. Often the animals knowingly migrate to areas where neither they nor their parents have ever been. Scientists rightly wonder how these skills originated. They seem to operate by a variety of mechanisms, from sun and star locations, to the magnetic field, to ocean currents, to magnetic imprinting. Understanding the operation of these abilities is mysterious enough, but where did they come from in the first place? No purely naturalistic source is satisfying.

The Flood story, however, is not merely natural, it involves the supernatural. The Creator was moving to preserve His creation. Might it not be appropriate to propose that, as the Flood was nearing, He instilled in a chosen pair of each "kind" a sense of impending doom and a desire to migrate to Noah and his Ark for preservation? All other representatives of their kind perished in the Flood, and all living representatives descended from the chosen pairs, inheriting the premonition and migration instincts.

There is no better explanation for the origin of these marvelous abilities. We can't know if this explanation is true, for the Creator hasn't told us the details. But at least there is a plausible answer. The naturalist has none.

http://www.icr.org/article/how-did-noah-gather-animals/

[Kiwivillan]

...and I'm happy to see the influence of religion in the western world waining. We see none of our political leaders swayed by religion or fear of damnation to hell.

Religion will live on but the people who believe it so rigouresly will have less and less input in the way society developes in the west. Which makes me quite happy. Very happy indeed that your kind are not anywhere near power or even influencing it.

I wish that were true but have you seen the Republican party. One of the frontrunners is from the Mormon Cult. A religion based on a guy who read magic tablets out of a hat and believes American Indians are descended from Israel

[limpid]

Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently.

This would be easy enough to prove using technology. We can control the light, pressure and composition of the atmosphere in an environment chamber. It can't be related to breeding as only god can change his creation. Otherwise you could test it by breeding many generations of mice in the chamber.

People will pay a fortune to extend their lives, even if they have to live in a box. I can't think why no-one's already done this, other than that it's drivel.

[Kiwivillan]

[ED]

Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently.

That is **** retarded. You're not a Watchtower mentalist are you?

I believe she is a JW, yes.

[regular_john]

Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently.

That is **** retarded. You're not a Watchtower mentalist are you?

No need mate. Yes, she is a JW, and yes she does believe some really bizarre shit, but she's not a mentalist.

[Kiwivillan]

All religions are brainwashing cults but JW is a particularly insane cult

[regular_john]

All religions are brainwashing cults but JW is a particularly insane cult

No more so than any other IMO, it's just that we're a bit more used to the insanity of catholicism, islam, judaism etc. We're yet to get used to the new breed of insanity (JW, mormons, scientologists)

[ml1dch]

First, it is necessary to note that Noah was not told to gather the animals. He was commanded only to build the Ark, large enough for all the animals, and simply receive the animals when they arrived. "And of every living thing of all flesh, . . . two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive" (Genesis 6:19-20).

Those sloths must have had a hell of a time swimming from their Brazilian jungle to the (presumable) mountains of Turkey.

[regular_john]

Back on topic.

Why is the thread titled in the form of a question anyway as it seems as if the OP already had their answer regardless ?

How did Noah get around all the continents collecting all the indigenous species by the way ?

Marsupials from Australia....Polar bears fro the Arctic etc etc ?

It seems like a logistical nightmare .

I guess it makes it sound like a chance for discussion, when actually it was simply an opportunity for steakandchips to preach nonsense

[Chindie]

Sloths in that age were closer to the perfect design and thus were quite poorly named, capable of running like Bolt and swimming like the bastard son of Phelps and Thorpe for weeks on end. They were the first to the Ark.