steaknchips Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 But they have knowledge of a God, or Gods and have their own laws so will follow those laws They also know of the God in the Bible but have been tought to follow another God So what of them? According to the bible they wont make it. The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Islam for instance is fully aware of Jesus Christ, yet their religion focuses more on Mohammed as being their true prophet. Sin is in the world mate that is fact, it entered us through Adam. The only wage for sin is life, so the only way for God to save us was for Jesus to sacrifice his life for our sins. Thus the ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 So a kid is going to hell because he happened to be born in Damascus or Delhi and was indoctrinated with a different faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 6, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 6, 2011 Genesis 6:1-3 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.” It goes on to talk about God being "grieved that he had made man" because of their great wickedness and wiped them out with the flood. Okay, so this book, which is the literal word of god states that man's lifespan is 120 years. Not "up to". So god was wrong? Or was this another "translation error"? How many of us will live the 120 years that Genesis gives us? Perhaps the guy writing down god's words didn't know the right word for "year" either. 120 years is the maximum, not the expected life span. For that, you want this passage: Psalm 90:10 The length of our days is seventy years— or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. So which of these two contradictory definitions is correct? Neither quote uses a phrase which means "up to". Which one is true? You'd think god would be able to remember what he'd said previously, except that as he is out of time, he said both of these things simultaneously. Mind you, you'd expect that if god could dictate the bible to someone, he could have made sure the translations were accurate too. Pretty poor omnipotency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 So a kid is going to hell because he happened to be born in Damascus or Delhi and was indoctrinated with a different faith. I dont know mate..The scripture I posted above answers this. God will be the final judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 But they have knowledge of a God, or Gods and have their own laws so will follow those laws They also know of the God in the Bible but have been tought to follow another God So what of them? According to the bible they wont make it. The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Islam for instance is fully aware of Jesus Christ, yet their religion focuses more on Mohammed as being their true prophet. Sin is in the world mate that is fact, it entered us through Adam. The only wage for sin is life, so the only way for God to save us was for Jesus to sacrifice his life for our sins. Thus the ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Horse shit. Jesus was (apparently) around 2000 years ago, humans have been around for thousands of years prior to that, according to your beliefs that means millions of people have no chance whatsoever of making it into the afterlife purely because they had the misfortune of living before Jesus was around. What about people who grow up in cultures where christianity is not the norm? What about people that die before they have a chance to choose any religion, let alone the 'right' one? How can you possibly consider yourself a good person when you spout such hateful shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 But you believe these scriptures so surely you know they will be going to hell. See why religion is quite a vile poison when people accept whatever they happen to believe in as fact. Religion was important in the past, the history of religion is very interesting and it's been a huge and important influence on mankind. But we no longer need superstition to explain what we don't understand or what we fear. We're finding explinations for so much with science, science will be here forever and I'm happy to see the influence of religion in the western world waining. We see none of our political leaders swayed by religion or fear of damnation to hell. Religion will live on but the people who believe it so rigouresly will have less and less input in the way society developes in the west. Which makes me quite happy. Very happy indeed that your kind are not anywhere near power or even influencing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Genesis 6:1-3 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.” It goes on to talk about God being "grieved that he had made man" because of their great wickedness and wiped them out with the flood. Okay, so this book, which is the literal word of god states that man's lifespan is 120 years. Not "up to". So god was wrong? Or was this another "translation error"? How many of us will live the 120 years that Genesis gives us? Perhaps the guy writing down god's words didn't know the right word for "year" either. 120 years is the maximum, not the expected life span. For that, you want this passage: Psalm 90:10 The length of our days is seventy years— or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. So which of these two contradictory definitions is correct? Neither quote uses a phrase which means "up to". Which one is true? You'd think god would be able to remember what he'd said previously, except that as he is out of time, he said both of these things simultaneously. Mind you, you'd expect that if god could dictate the bible to someone, he could have made sure the translations were accurate too. Pretty poor omnipotency. Psalm 90 is Moses praying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 How can you possibly consider yourself a good person when you spout such hateful shit? Christians don't actually have any real morals IMO. Being good because you want reward or fear punishment isn't being good at all. An atheist who does good simply because he want's to live in a better world, even though they know that it is the only life they will ever have, has a far higher standard of morality than any religious person . The God of the Bible is a homophobic , murderous , slavery advocating , baby killing , jealous , spiteful , incest loving , rape loving word removed bucket yet he is held up as the standard of morality !!!! It's absolutely ridiculous . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Steakandcheese and julie - you have both repeatedly displayed a total misunderstanding of evolution, the relevant evidence, and science in general. This should come as no surprise. Unfortunately creationist material is written exclusively by scientifically uneducated religious fundamentalists who adhere to dogma rather than rational thought or logic. I object to that Regular_john. What a load of rubbish. I was brought up by Atheist parents to beleive in Evolution and never baptised. I took O & A levels in all three sciences and I could quite easily have gone on to a career in mathematics and/or science. I was good at it. I try very hard to put my faith into action and be kind and caring to my fellow humans what others do is their business. However I'm not entering the debate on VT because of the vitriole that goes with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 6, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 6, 2011 Psalm 90 is Moses praying. So it's not part of the word of god? Good, so we defer to Genesis which says we will all live 120 years (not up to). So this was a simple lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Steakandcheese and julie - you have both repeatedly displayed a total misunderstanding of evolution, the relevant evidence, and science in general. This should come as no surprise. Unfortunately creationist material is written exclusively by scientifically uneducated religious fundamentalists who adhere to dogma rather than rational thought or logic. I object to that Regular_john. What a load of rubbish. I was brought up by Atheist parents to beleive in Evolution and never baptised. I took O & A levels in all three sciences and I could quite easily have gone on to a career in mathematics and/or science. I was good at it. I try very hard to put my faith into action and be kind and caring to my fellow humans what others do is their business. However I'm not entering the debate on VT because of the vitriole that goes with it Being able to pass exams in a subject and truly understanding are two very different things. If you think the story of adam and eve is anything other than a fictional tale you clearly didn't understand what you were taught! And I object to your use of the term 'belief' in reference to evolution, there's no such thing as belief in gravity, no such thing as belief in electrons, no such thing as belief in the life cycle of a star, and no such thing as belief in evolution. Science is not based on belief or faith, it is based on evidence. I don't 'believe' that evolution is true, I 'accept' that it is true based on evidence, reason and logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently. Jehovah's punishment on the first humans, Adam & Eve was that if they turned against their Creator, then they would die within "ONE DAY". God's timekeeping is different to ours - (2 Peter 3:8) "However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day" Adam did indeed live less than a thousand years and no human has lived for even “one day” from God's point of view. The life span of the ten generations from Adam to Noah averaged more than 850 years each. (Ge 5:5-31; 9:29) But after Noah, man’s life span dropped off sharply. Abraham, for example, lived only 175 years. (Ge 25:7) Today, much as it was in the time of Moses, people living under favorable conditions may reach 70 or 80 years of age. Moses wrote: “In themselves the days of our years are seventy years; and if because of special mightiness they are eighty years, yet their insistence is on trouble and hurtful things; for it must quickly pass by, and away we fly.” (Ps 90:10) Some few may live longer, but Moses stated the general rule. Moses himself, who lived 120 years, was an exception, as were his brother Aaron (123 years), Joshua (110 years), and some others whose strength and vitality were unusual.—De 34:7; Nu 33:39; Jos 24:29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Psalm 90 is Moses praying. So it's not part of the word of god? Good, so we defer to Genesis which says we will all live 120 years (not up to). So this was a simple lie? What was a simple lie? I dont get what you mean.. Psalm 90 is Moses praying to God..Its not God preaching to world that everyone will live for 90 years...Its a prayer that Moses is doing. The 120 years could be possible that God shortens life in mankind, as after the flood the lifespan of mankind was drastically reduced. Alternately it could also be in reference to God saying that mankind has 120 years left before the flood wipes them out.. The best thing to do is read all Genesis 6 and make your own mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I'm confused by all this talk of man living for 120 years. Wasn't Noah 480 a couple of pages back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Being able to pass exams in a subject and truly understanding are two very different things. If you think the story of adam and eve is anything other than a fictional tale you clearly didn't understand what you were taught! And I object to your use of the term 'belief' in reference to evolution, there's no such thing as belief in gravity, no such thing as belief in electrons, no such thing as belief in the life cycle of a star, and no such thing as belief in evolution. Science is not based on belief or faith, it is based on evidence. I don't 'believe' that evolution is true, I 'accept' that it is true based on evidence, reason and logic. I'm not getting dragged into this discussion. My only retort would be... Universal laws of Gravity, Nuclear Physics etc to me ALL show that there is order and preciseness in the Universe. That order implies an intelligent Creator END OF!. To my mind ORDER does NOT come from CHAOS, which is why I questioned the whole matter of their not being an intelligent designer behind it all. Albert Einstein (1879-1955) Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." (Romans 1:20) . . ."For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable" Questioning the origin of life and the universe thereon led me to question the theory of Evolution on the Earth and Mankind's anthrapology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Universal laws of Gravity, Nuclear Physics etc to me ALL show that there is order and preciseness in the Universe. That order implies an intelligent Creator END OF!. To my mind ORDER does NOT come from CHAOS, which is why I questioned the whole matter of their not being an intelligent designer behind it all. So I assume that your existence of an intelligent creator also implies an intelligent creator of the intelligent creator? Why worship your God when you can worship the God that created him. Or the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created the God that created your God? You've fallen into a ridiculous logical fallacy there "this is complex, this has order, therefore it HAS TO have been created by someone", whilst ignoring that that someone would have to be complex, and have order, and therefore have to have been created by someone. The old cop out that "God exists outside of our universe" just doesn't cut it. It doesn't matter where or how he exists, that he exists, that he is intelligent, means that BY YOUR OWN LOGIC, he must have had a creator. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Which is it, does intelligence and order need a creator or not? If it does your God is simply one in an infinite line of intelligent creators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Limpid - God didn't lie. Before the Deluge - the "cataclysm" - mankind's lifespan was much greater. It's clear that the water layer above the Earth in some way protected human bodies from harmful solar rays or some factor which had allowed mankind to reach ages of much longer than subsequently. I can not believe you julie! In one post you paint yourself as having had a good enough grasp on science to potentially have pursued a career in it, now you're making claims about a water canopy above the Earth??? EPIC fail julie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Universal laws of Gravity, Nuclear Physics etc to me ALL show that there is order and preciseness in the Universe. That order implies an intelligent Creator END OF!. To my mind ORDER does NOT come from CHAOS, which is why I questioned the whole matter of their not being an intelligent designer behind it all. No. It doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 6, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 6, 2011 Religion is a seriously bonkers **** up thing. This thread is funny though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Can I suggest that we all stop? Whilst it's undeniably entertaining poking fun at the crazy people, you know full well that you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they are saying is laughable bollocks, and they'll STILL keep getting up with another host of Biblical quotes that are somehow supposed to prove that they're right. They're like Arnie in the Terminator, but instead of being metallic and unstoppable, they're shiny-eyed and disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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