The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[steve-67]

I still have a little faith in Randy Lerner. I also think that whilst Faulkner knows very little about football, he has pulled off some good deals for the club in terms of sponsorship, with the kits deal with Macron and Genting. The club therefore does need some stability and Randy and Faulkner might be thinking that the voice of the fans is less important to them that the fact that they have raised good sponsorship money, whilst reducing the wage bill. Therefore, they might stick with McLeish as they see things holistically as he has assisted them with the reduction of wages by being such a "yes man". The real question for them is: do we care enough about the quality of football and the fans opinions to make the change of Manager?

Personally, I hope that they are ruthless enough to think that the change of Manager might mean more bums on seats and more revenue for the club as it isn't difficult to see the empty seats, because of the dire football. In relation to those saying that Eck will be given carte blanche to get rid of the trouble makers this summer, I honestly think that the club would have given him that last summer as it achieves two things: 1) they get sold, no more rocket polishers 2) wage bill reduced even more. I actually wonder if anyone wants them?

Can I be absolutely clear. I want McLeish gone. I want Randy to be ruthless and see this for what it is: A Manager who is not good enough to manage Aston Villa.

[smetrov]

I don't believe that, I just think we will not be adding to that wage bill in terms we have now put a structure in place, With Cuellar, Guzan and Heskey leaving, then trying to sell Warnock and Collins. We will then look at replacements on a cheaper wage than what those are commanding. The wage bill has reduced considerably.

Im not taken in by 'get the high earners off the books' - and then we will be able to spend freely. The idea of getting the wage bill down is to keep it down. Pretty much where we were 6 years ago - if not worse

[villaglint]

I really dont know what the board are going to do -

On the one hand I think they knew it would be a tough year and were mentally prepared to ride it out with McLeish.

However the football has been that bad that they must be thinking twice about whether AM is the man. He really seems to have little clue about how to dominate a win a football match. The idea of going 2 ahead in a game seems completely alien to him - we have dropped something like 20 points from winning positions this year.

One thing I will say is that by this time next week we will know for sure.

After the Norwich game is gone they will either get rid and move on the Plan B we all hope has been worked on the last few weeks OR they will come out and back him and we will all spend a whole summer crying into our beers.

[SikhInTrinity]

Who said about spending freely, did you not read, I said sell the likes of Warnock who are on approximately 45 to 50k then bring in a LB who commands around 30 to 40k, it's being more efficient in all departments, then you have your star players wage i.e. Bent, if he goes then that wage free up for another big name. Remember we had a wage bill which was 87% to turnover which was never ever sustainable.

[villabromsgrove]

A little over 12 months ago the bloke turned us down

It would be embarrassing to say the least if we went grovelling again for this mediocre manager

This is ignorant in my opinion.

Yes - their final position in the table is 16th (ish) every season, but that has got to do with their squad and not Martinez. They have a Championship-team with a few diamonds in the rough, that is about it. Do you think Wenger, Redknapp or let's say Di Matteo would have done so much better this season? Wigan have no cash, they have little backing and no atmosphere (i.e help) from their supporters in home games.

What I like about Martinez is that he is a genuine footballing man, seems to adopt to the modern game (even with Wigan, which is a gamble indeed), has the backing of his owner unconditionally, as well as fans and players, and he is still very young. He is a talent, at least compared to old fools like McLeish. He is 38 years old, barely older than Ryan Giggs and younger than Brad Friedel.

Managers develop in the same sense as players do, over the course of their career. Where was Moyes when he was 38? In his final years at Preston North End. Wenger? You wouldn't have heard of him.

I am not saying Martinez is a guarantee to become the best manager in the world, but I am more than willing to let him take the reigns at Villa. He has shown commitment to Wigan in tough times, a kind of loyalty we don't see often in this game. He is regarded as a gentleman between the managers, he never picks unnecessary fights and he is articulate in the media. Does not make up drivel and blame the players when he has done a big mistake, unlike our current pensioner. And I like the fact that he stands on the touchline and gets involved in every second of the game.. shouting and instructing, not just sitting there in the dug-out like he couldn't give a shit.

All in all, he has experience at 38, he like the attacking, modern game - he likes the passing mentality, he is loyal and he just deserves a chance at a higher level.

I agree with every word of this post. Imo Randy should make signing Roberto Martinez his absolute priority, and pay or do whatever it takes to make it happen as soon as we've got the Norwich game out of the way.

[GENTLEMAN]

A little over 12 months ago the bloke turned us down

It would be embarrassing to say the least if we went grovelling again for this mediocre manager

This is ignorant in my opinion.

Yes - their final position in the table is 16th (ish) every season, but that has got to do with their squad and not Martinez. They have a Championship-team with a few diamonds in the rough, that is about it. Do you think Wenger, Redknapp or let's say Di Matteo would have done so much better this season? Wigan have no cash, they have little backing and no atmosphere (i.e help) from their supporters in home games.

What I like about Martinez is that he is a genuine footballing man, seems to adopt to the modern game (even with Wigan, which is a gamble indeed), has the backing of his owner unconditionally, as well as fans and players, and he is still very young. He is a talent, at least compared to old fools like McLeish. He is 38 years old, barely older than Ryan Giggs and younger than Brad Friedel.

Managers develop in the same sense as players do, over the course of their career. Where was Moyes when he was 38? In his final years at Preston North End. Wenger? You wouldn't have heard of him.

I am not saying Martinez is a guarantee to become the best manager in the world, but I am more than willing to let him take the reigns at Villa. He has shown commitment to Wigan in tough times, a kind of loyalty we don't see often in this game. He is regarded as a gentleman between the managers, he never picks unnecessary fights and he is articulate in the media. Does not make up drivel and blame the players when he has done a big mistake, unlike our current pensioner. And I like the fact that he stands on the touchline and gets involved in every second of the game.. shouting and instructing, not just sitting there in the dug-out like he couldn't give a shit.

All in all, he has experience at 38, he like the attacking, modern game - he likes the passing mentality, he is loyal and he just deserves a chance at a higher level.

The Gentleman’s understanding of the Roberto situation is when joining Plucky Little Wigan in the summer of 2009, he committed to a 3-year contract. In between puffing Cuban smoke, honorable Whelan offered the Señor at least 3 seasons in charge regardless of fortunes (e.g. relegation, 3-way sex scandals, phone hacking etc.).

A modern day act of loyalty, if you will.

The Señor was approached whilst only 2 years into this contract and as such decided to mirror the loyalty shown and refused to speak to the claret and blue party. The honorable Whelan is a most canny squire. He understood he had Señors loyalty last summer, but for all intents and purposes his large northern mouth suggested otherwise. When trumpets announced that the Señor was to remain, Whelan once again arose as Plucky Little Wigan’s noble hero.

The Gentleman is of the perception that the Señor is yet to sign an extension, therefore relinquishing any moral conundrum if a similar situation should arise this summer.

The Gentleman suggests that this was Randolph, Esq. master plan all along. The proposal of a fastidiously orchestrated stooge (Alex), who could never succeed, would take the reigns for a single ‘near’ disastrous year, allowing him to be disposed off without any fuss. This, in turn, would simultaneously allow the acquisition of the now out of contract, morally appeased, Señor Martinez and the lowering of fan expectations to Johnson paint trophy semi finalists. Therefore permitting Señor Martinez to establish a high-order, elite, super-dooper top ‘top’ club and bring the joy of a thousand Paul McGraths to deserving fans.

However, the Gentlemen’s master elucidation falls down when it is considered that Alex was offered a 3-year contract and that Randolph eyes a very close together suggestive of limited intelligence through aristocratic inbreeding. When the involvement of chubby Darth Faulkner is factored in, the plan seems nigh on impossible.

The Gentleman Weeps.

[dudevillaisnice]

Survival is rarely more shameful. A goal up, at home and against ten men, Aston Villa ended up clinging on for the draw that nudged them over the finishing line. Officially the worst season at home in their 124-league history brought a mere four victories and concluded with the Villa Park faithful adapting the lyrics of long-time favourite chant "Paul McGrath, My Lord" to "Sack McLeish, My Lord".

And then, just to add to the sense of irritation, Alex McLeish said that he expects to remain in charge in next season. That would be a recipe for mediocrity. It is not merely the fact that Villa have a solitary victory in their last 15 games that ought to render his position untenable. It is certainly not the oft-mentioned reality that he used to manage Birmingham, even if that hardly helps his case. It is the combination of his record, his footballing ethos and Villa's unacceptably bad season.

Unflattering statistics abound, but consider this one: Steve Kean, perhaps the most hated manager in recent history, has won 22% of his Premier League games. In the last two seasons, McLeish has won only 20% of his, despite having superior players for much of that time. Admittedly, the latter has an unparalleled commitment to drawing football - while only 15 of 75 matches have ended positively, a further 32 have finished level - but parity is not the purpose of football.

Stalemates should never be the objective, but Villa's most common scoreline this season is 0-0. Much as McLeish objects to the suggestions he is defensive, the numbers tell their own tale. In his last 113 league games, whether with Birmingham or Villa, his sides have scored 112 goals. Such a large sample size cannot be explained by misfortune or a few missed chances, especially when Villa have had the second fewest number of shots on target in the Premier League.

Football is invariably about a balance between attack and defence, but a philosophy is flawed when it is tilted too far in one direction, as McLeish's is. There is only one justification for such negativity and that is success. Villa have had none to enjoy.

If supporters crave excitement and results, the Villa public have had neither. Deprived of entertainment, they have occupied themselves by chanting against the manager. At times, there has been little else to do. Villa have showed a desperate lack of ambition in games - Tottenham away, Liverpool and Manchester United at home, even the trip to then-bottom Wigan - when it has appeared they rarely even attempted to score.

Indeed, examine the progressive players in McLeish's squad and none has benefited from his regime. Certainly not Charles N'Zogbia - inspirational for Wigan last year, and insipid for Villa this - or Darren Bent, a predator starved or service. Not Marc Albrighton, who has regressed after his encouraging debut year last season, nor Barry Bannan, of whom the same could be said. Certainly not Gabriel Agbonlahor, whose last league goal was in November, or Emile Heskey, whose only strike came in August. Even Stephen Ireland, bemusingly voted the fans' player of the year when Shay Given was perhaps the only plausible candidate, has been nowhere near his peak.

While McLeish has, albeit unwittingly, reinvigorated the rebellious fans, he has drained the life out of the team as an attacking force. While the summer sales of Ashley Young and Stewart Downing have been cited in his defence, there is still the feeling that this should be a top-ten squad - indeed, do Fulham, who have had the added complication of a Europa League run, and West Brom have better players?

While Villa have had injuries, so have others and, in any case, they have cover. They are fortunate to have one of the finest crops of emerging players in the country, yet McLeish's natural conservatism means he is unlikely to promote young players and they tend to be demoted when more senior figures are available.

It is a reason to doubt whether next season will be any better. The club's financial losses mean an organic method is imperative. Villa require a manager who can integrate young talents like Albrighton, Bannan, Ciaran Clark, Gary Gardner, Nathan Baker and Andreas Weimann. With gates down, they need a leader who can restore optimism among the support. With the club having traded top six for bottom six in the space of two years, they long for anything remotely resembling their recent past.

Nothing about McLeish suggests he is the man to instigate a revival. His personal slump has lasted two league seasons, while his popularity ratings are unlikely to improve. He has passed the point of no return in his relationship with the Villa supporters and, as an essentially pragmatic man, he should recognise as much.

Yet McLeish's attitude has long suggested self-preservation is his aim. In one respect, that is understandable - he has become another Gary Megson, a manager no fan wants in charge of his or her club, and another chance may not present itself - but in another it is depressing. While both halves of the Second City might unite in disagreeing with this, he is an honourable man in many ways, possessing a fundamental sense of decency - the sort of upstanding individual Randy Lerner tends to appoint.

Now, rather than hanging on for a compensation package, thus becoming the third manager the American owner has had to pay off in short succession, or allowing a dismal situation to become worse, the decent thing is to walk away. Because this has been Villa's poorest season for a quarter of a century, worse even than the dark days under David O'Leary, Graham Taylor and Jozef Venglos. They have survived, just, but McLeish should not.

http://tinyurl.com/cyxrdop

Brilliant write up by ESPN.

[smetrov]

A little over 12 months ago the bloke turned us down

It would be embarrassing to say the least if we went grovelling again for this mediocre manager

This is ignorant in my opinion.

Yes - their final position in the table is 16th (ish) every season, but that has got to do with their squad and not Martinez. They have a Championship-team with a few diamonds in the rough, that is about it. Do you think Wenger, Redknapp or let's say Di Matteo would have done so much better this season? Wigan have no cash, they have little backing and no atmosphere (i.e help) from their supporters in home games.

What I like about Martinez is that he is a genuine footballing man, seems to adopt to the modern game (even with Wigan, which is a gamble indeed), has the backing of his owner unconditionally, as well as fans and players, and he is still very young. He is a talent, at least compared to old fools like McLeish. He is 38 years old, barely older than Ryan Giggs and younger than Brad Friedel.

Managers develop in the same sense as players do, over the course of their career. Where was Moyes when he was 38? In his final years at Preston North End. Wenger? You wouldn't have heard of him.

I am not saying Martinez is a guarantee to become the best manager in the world, but I am more than willing to let him take the reigns at Villa. He has shown commitment to Wigan in tough times, a kind of loyalty we don't see often in this game. He is regarded as a gentleman between the managers, he never picks unnecessary fights and he is articulate in the media. Does not make up drivel and blame the players when he has done a big mistake, unlike our current pensioner. And I like the fact that he stands on the touchline and gets involved in every second of the game.. shouting and instructing, not just sitting there in the dug-out like he couldn't give a shit.

All in all, he has experience at 38, he like the attacking, modern game - he likes the passing mentality, he is loyal and he just deserves a chance at a higher level.

The Gentleman’s understanding of the Roberto situation is when joining Plucky Little Wigan in the summer of 2009, he committed to a 3-year contract. In between puffing Cuban smoke, honorable Whelan offered the Señor at least 3 seasons in charge regardless of fortunes (e.g. relegation, 3-way sex scandals, phone hacking etc.).

A modern day act of loyalty, if you will.

The Señor was approached whilst only 2 years into this contract and as such decided to mirror the loyalty shown and refused to speak to the claret and blue party. The honorable Whelan is a most canny squire. He understood he had Señors loyalty last summer, but for all intents and purposes his large northern mouth suggested otherwise. When trumpets announced that the Señor was to remain, Whelan once again arose as Plucky Little Wigan’s noble hero.

The Gentleman is of the perception that the Señor is yet to sign an extension, therefore relinquishing any moral conundrum if a similar situation should arise this summer.

The Gentleman suggests that this was Randolph, Esq. master plan all along. The proposal of a fastidiously orchestrated stooge (Alex), who could never succeed, would take the reigns for a single ‘near’ disastrous year, allowing him to be disposed off without any fuss. This, in turn, would simultaneously allow the acquisition of the now out of contract, morally appeased, Señor Martinez and the lowering of fan expectations to Johnson paint trophy semi finalists. Therefore permitting Señor Martinez to establish a high-order, elite, super-dooper top ‘top’ club and bring the joy of a thousand Paul McGraths to deserving fans.

However, the Gentlemen’s master elucidation falls down when it is considered that Alex was offered a 3-year contract and that Randolph eyes a very close together suggestive of limited intelligence through aristocratic inbreeding. When the involvement of chubby Darth Faulkner is factored in, the plan seems nigh on impossible.

The Gentleman Weeps.

Jesus - I hope we are really not going to that length to get a bloke who regularly finishes 4/5th from bottom.

[jamdog]

I think witnessing the Bolton game will seal it for Randy Lerner. If that's the case King Carlos did us a solid in strategically mistiming his tackle.

[NeilS]

Stalemates should never be the objective, but Villa's most common scoreline this season is 0-0. Much as McLeish objects to the suggestions he is defensive, the numbers tell their own tale. In his last 113 league games, whether with Birmingham or Villa, his sides have scored 112 goals. Such a large sample size cannot be explained by misfortune or a few missed chances, especially when Villa have had the second fewest number of shots on target in the Premier League.

http://tinyurl.com/cyxrdop

Brilliant write up by ESPN.

Yes it's hard to disagree with any of it, and the paragraph above highlights the main problem that has worried me from the start of the season. Even with a reasonable start to the season, the lack of chances created and goals scored stood out for me since the first game of the season. I hoped it would get better, but didn't expect it to, and can't see it ever improving under McLeish.

[tonyh29]

A little over 12 months ago the bloke turned us down

It would be embarrassing to say the least if we went grovelling again for this mediocre manager

This is ignorant in my opinion.

Yes - their final position in the table is 16th (ish) every season, but that has got to do with their squad and not Martinez. They have a Championship-team with a few diamonds in the rough, that is about it. Do you think Wenger, Redknapp or let's say Di Matteo would have done so much better this season? Wigan have no cash, they have little backing and no atmosphere (i.e help) from their supporters in home games.

What I like about Martinez is that he is a genuine footballing man, seems to adopt to the modern game (even with Wigan, which is a gamble indeed), has the backing of his owner unconditionally, as well as fans and players, and he is still very young. He is a talent, at least compared to old fools like McLeish. He is 38 years old, barely older than Ryan Giggs and younger than Brad Friedel.

Managers develop in the same sense as players do, over the course of their career. Where was Moyes when he was 38? In his final years at Preston North End. Wenger? You wouldn't have heard of him.

I am not saying Martinez is a guarantee to become the best manager in the world, but I am more than willing to let him take the reigns at Villa. He has shown commitment to Wigan in tough times, a kind of loyalty we don't see often in this game. He is regarded as a gentleman between the managers, he never picks unnecessary fights and he is articulate in the media. Does not make up drivel and blame the players when he has done a big mistake, unlike our current pensioner. And I like the fact that he stands on the touchline and gets involved in every second of the game.. shouting and instructing, not just sitting there in the dug-out like he couldn't give a shit.

All in all, he has experience at 38, he like the attacking, modern game - he likes the passing mentality, he is loyal and he just deserves a chance at a higher level.

The Gentleman’s understanding of the Roberto situation is when joining Plucky Little Wigan in the summer of 2009, he committed to a 3-year contract. In between puffing Cuban smoke, honorable Whelan offered the Señor at least 3 seasons in charge regardless of fortunes (e.g. relegation, 3-way sex scandals, phone hacking etc.).

A modern day act of loyalty, if you will.

The Señor was approached whilst only 2 years into this contract and as such decided to mirror the loyalty shown and refused to speak to the claret and blue party. The honorable Whelan is a most canny squire. He understood he had Señors loyalty last summer, but for all intents and purposes his large northern mouth suggested otherwise. When trumpets announced that the Señor was to remain, Whelan once again arose as Plucky Little Wigan’s noble hero.

The Gentleman is of the perception that the Señor is yet to sign an extension, therefore relinquishing any moral conundrum if a similar situation should arise this summer.

The Gentleman suggests that this was Randolph, Esq. master plan all along. The proposal of a fastidiously orchestrated stooge (Alex), who could never succeed, would take the reigns for a single ‘near’ disastrous year, allowing him to be disposed off without any fuss. This, in turn, would simultaneously allow the acquisition of the now out of contract, morally appeased, Señor Martinez and the lowering of fan expectations to Johnson paint trophy semi finalists. Therefore permitting Señor Martinez to establish a high-order, elite, super-dooper top ‘top’ club and bring the joy of a thousand Paul McGraths to deserving fans.

However, the Gentlemen’s master elucidation falls down when it is considered that Alex was offered a 3-year contract and that Randolph eyes a very close together suggestive of limited intelligence through aristocratic inbreeding. When the involvement of chubby Darth Faulkner is factored in, the plan seems nigh on impossible.

The Gentleman Weeps.

:-)

nice first post ..get yourself over to off Topic we need an influx of humour , Gareth ,Wiggy and Stevo dried up months ago

[smetrov]

Somebody came up with the stat than in his last 150 games in charge of any club - the team have only scored more than one goal on 10 occasions. can't be true ?

Could anyone write a frontpage article 'the stats that damm Mcleish' ? - theres enough about

[GENTLEMAN]

Jesus - I hope we are really not going to that length to get a bloke who regularly finishes 4/5th from bottom.

My fellow, it is about perspective. When comparing fan-base, resources, facilities and wage/transfer budgets it appears Plucky Little Wigan (PLW) are one of the smallest teams in the top two tiers of English football.

Without the 'surprise' element and high morale of a newly promoted team and his star players cherry picked each year he has ensured PLW's survival in the top division for 3 years with effective entertaining football. Proving himself tactically adaptive, intelligent and to have high quality man-management.

It is the Gentleman's understanding that he has an extremely high work and moral ethic, indeed he was criticised when first arrived at PLW that he was concentrating on the structure of the reserve/youth teams too much. The man is a meticulous being. He will not incorporate a player until he grasped the apprehension and understanding of his team-mates and tactics. He is calm, self assured, young and has high amounts of potential.

What this club needs now is an enema, and in the Gentleman's opinion, with Mcleish being persona non grata, the man most adept at holding that pipe would be Señor Martinez. Excuse the crass analogy.

[smetrov]

Jesus - I hope we are really not going to that length to get a bloke who regularly finishes 4/5th from bottom.

My fellow, it is about perspective. When comparing fan-base, resources, facilities and wage/transfer budgets it appears Plucky Little Wigan (PLW) are one of the smallest teams in the top two tiers of English football.

Without the 'surprise' element and high morale of a newly promoted team and his star players cherry picked each year he has ensured PLW's survival in the top division for 3 years with effective entertaining football. Proving himself tactically adaptive, intelligent and to have high quality man-management.

It is the Gentleman's understanding that he has an extremely high work and moral ethic, indeed he was criticised when first arrived at PLW that he was concentrating on the structure of the reserve/youth teams too much. The man is a meticulous being. He will not incorporate a player until he grasped the apprehension and understanding of his team-mates and tactics. He is calm, self assured, young and has high amounts of potential.

What this club needs now is an enema, and in the Gentleman's opinion, with Mcleish being persona non grata, the man most adept at holding that pipe would be Señor Martinez. Excuse the crass analogy.

But he hasn't done as well there as Steve Bruce did ?

[dudevillaisnice]

Nottingham Forest have secured a second pre-season game against Premier League opposition at The City Ground.

The Reds are to face Aston Villa on Saturday, August 4 (kick-off 3pm) - seven days before they line-up against West Brom.

The games will form a key part of Forest's preparations for the new Championship campaign which is scheduled to get underway on August 18.

Ticket prices and details will be announced in due course.

... is this a sign that he is staying?

[SikhInTrinity]

Not really DVIN! Pre-season friendlies were arranged when Houllier was still here

[AVFCforever1991]

Pretty good article from Nursey

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/the-aston-villa-column-why-big-changes-826799#comments

[ChrisH]

Somebody came up with the stat than in his last 150 games in charge of any club - the team have only scored more than one goal on 10 occasions. can't be true ?

Well looking at this seasons results including cup games we have scored more than 1 goal on 10 occassions, so unless he hadn't done it ever in his previous 100 or so then I would suggest the stat is untrue, believable but still untrue

[switters]

Somebody came up with the stat than in his last 150 games in charge of any club - the team have only scored more than one goal on 10 occasions. can't be true ?

Could anyone write a frontpage article 'the stats that damm Mcleish' ? - theres enough about

Er, no. We've score more than one goal 10 times in the league this season alone.

I think the actual stat is about winning by 2 goals. We've only managed that 5 times, and 2 of them were Hereford and Bristol Rovers in the cup.

Birmingham last season won by 2 goals on only six occasions and four of them were in the cup (mostly against lower league sides).

The season Birmingham finished 9th they did not win a single game all season by more than one goal!

Even in their promotion season from the Championship, he only managed 5 league wins by more than one goal.

38 - 3

38 - 2

38 - 0

46- 5

That makes 10 times he's managed to win by 2 goals in the past 160 league games, including a year in the Championship. Woeful.

[misanthrope]

Jesus - I hope we are really not going to that length to get a bloke who regularly finishes 4/5th from bottom.

My fellow, it is about perspective. When comparing fan-base, resources, facilities and wage/transfer budgets it appears Plucky Little Wigan (PLW) are one of the smallest teams in the top two tiers of English football.

Without the 'surprise' element and high morale of a newly promoted team and his star players cherry picked each year he has ensured PLW's survival in the top division for 3 years with effective entertaining football. Proving himself tactically adaptive, intelligent and to have high quality man-management.

It is the Gentleman's understanding that he has an extremely high work and moral ethic, indeed he was criticised when first arrived at PLW that he was concentrating on the structure of the reserve/youth teams too much. The man is a meticulous being. He will not incorporate a player until he grasped the apprehension and understanding of his team-mates and tactics. He is calm, self assured, young and has high amounts of potential.

What this club needs now is an enema, and in the Gentleman's opinion, with Mcleish being persona non grata, the man most adept at holding that pipe would be Señor Martinez. Excuse the crass analogy.

So in essence, what you're asking is for us to imagine what the guy could do if backed financially?

I've had the misfortune of having watched in the region of 30 wigan games this season due to the hazards of my occupation. Some of the performances early season were beyond even villa for lackluster.

Not saying I wouldn't prefer him to what we have, i'd take Paul Buckle over what we have, but i'm just not sure about Martinez, he's a big question mark for me.