The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Valhalla]

Everybody forgets the most important fact. They think he is a good manager.

I would think the clubs thoughts of him have dipped some what after this abortion of a season.

Leaving by mutual consent after the Nowich game imo.

I`m not so sure, we have had one bad season, if they buy into the idea that circumstances were to blame for a lot of it i don`t see them making a rash decision.

They may well just get him in for a meeting and tell him he needs to improve.

If they still rate him and make plans to buy and sell players, the logical solution is that he stays for another season at least.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Everybody forgets the most important fact. They think he is a good manager.

They also think they know how to run my football club so make of that what you want.

[avfc443]

I would be surprised is McLeish wasn't our manager come the first game of the season (in front of a crowd of 25,000).

Lerner is clearly concentrating his efforts on getting out the club, he won't be arsed with sacking/finding a new manager.

[barry'sboots]

I would be surprised is McLeish wasn't our manager come the first game of the season (in front of a crowd of 25,000).

Lerner is clearly concentrating his efforts on getting out the club, he won't be arsed with sacking/finding a new manager.

Yes, I'm sure a club on its arse that has narrowly avoided relegation, has no fan base left and plays the most negative football in the league will look like a really attractive proposition for your average Russian Oligarch or Middle Eastern Oil Billionaire! :winkold:

[B.Robinson]

I posted this over on boards.ie, thought I'd share here for some uplifting lunchtime reading

--------------

Of course, who needs wins when you get enough draws, right?

Villa won 4 games at home this season. The lowest home win total in the Championship was Doncaster's 4; the lowest in League 1 was 6 (a few teams tied on this) and in League 2 the lowest home win total was 5 (Hereford and Macclesfield tied).

Granted, the latter three leagues play more games. So taking home wins as a percentage of home games played, Villa had 4 out of 19 = 21.06%. This translates to 4.84 wins in a 24 team league.

Therefore, in the Championship, Villa would be 2nd worst, worst in League 1 and worst again in League 2, or tied for worst if you round 4.84 up to 5.

Or, looking at it another way, when you adjust things for games played, there are only 2 teams in the top 4 tiers of English football with a worse home win record than Villa this season: Wolves and Doncaster. Both of the latter two teams finished rock bottom of their division.

Looking at total wins, the picture doesn't get any brighter. 7 total wins in a 20 team league (18.4%), is the equivalent to 8.5 wins in 24 team league. Again Villa were only trumped by Wolves in this regard in the Premiership, as most people know, and they would have lost out to only Doncaster in the Championship (8 wins; rock bottom of the table), Rochdale in League 1 (8 wins; rock bottom of the table) and Macclesfield Town in League 2 (you guessed it - 8 wins; rock bottom of the table).

Finally, looking at the win percentage in the top leagues across Europe, you see a similar trend.

Italy Seria A: Only Cesena and Novara (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Germany Bundesliga: Only Kaiserslautern (bottom) worse than Villa.

Spain La Liga: Only Racing Santander (bottom) worse than Villa.

France Ligue 1: Only Brest (3rd bottom) worse than Villa.

Portugal Primeira Liga: Only Feirense and Uniao de Leiria (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Ireland Premier League: Only Galway United (bottom) worse than Villa.

Scotland Premier League: Only Dunfermline (bottom) worse than Villa.

Netherlands Eredivisie: Only De Graafschap and Excelsior (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

A lot of the above leagues have a few more rounds of games to complete, so those figures may change. But as it stands, the only league where a worse win percentage record than Villa wouldn't have you rock bottom of the table this year is Ligue 1 in France, and Brest are nonetheless in the relegation zone.

Negative football does not work. If draws were enough, you would not get the trend above, i.e., where in every league bar 1, you can predict the bottom team by how many wins they have.

Enough of this tired, convenient and down right ignorant treatment of Villa fans in the media; McLeish's former employer is a complete non-entity. As a sign read at Villa Park last week "it's not where you came from it's where you are taking us". His a perilously risky approach to the game and the data back this up consistently. Write this down: Aston Villa will eventually be relegated if McLeish stays at the club. Precedent, employment history and data all converge on this point.

As an aside, all you can really do is applaud the charlatan who can amass a ten figure fortune and yet fail to see a glaring statistical trend screaming at him to change course with his operation of a business.

[NeilS]

Everybody forgets the most important fact. They think he is a good manager.

I would think the clubs thoughts of him have dipped some what after this abortion of a season.

Leaving by mutual consent after the Nowich game imo.

I agree. Having seen the Football First highlights at the weekend, and hearing a loud rendition of "Sack McLeish M'Lord" ring out at the end, and McLeish looking uncomfortable, I think it is only a matter of days now.

Finishing below 40 points is almost criminal for Villa, no way could he stay on after that. That combined with slow season ticket sales for next season, if what people are saying plays out, means he is a goner.

[BOF]

Even if it was 2pts for a win, where draws are more valuable in that case, we'd still only be 15th in the league albeit we'd be 100% safe by now.

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[row color=#5a84c9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]2 [col]Manchester United [col]37 [col]27 [col]5 [col]5 [col]88 [col]33 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]59 [col]+55 [col]1.59 [col]2

[row color=#5a84c9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]3 [col]Arsenal [col]37 [col]20 [col]7 [col]10 [col]71 [col]47 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]47 [col]+24 [col]1.27 [col]3

[row color=#5a84c9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]4 [col]Tottenham Hotspur [col]37 [col]19 [col]9 [col]9 [col]64 [col]41 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]47 [col]+23 [col]1.27 [col]4

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[row color=#bccde9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]7 [col]Everton [col]37 [col]14 [col]11 [col]12 [col]47 [col]39 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]39 [col]+8 [col]1.05 [col]7

[row color=#bccde9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]8 [col]Liverpool [col]37 [col]14 [col]10 [col]13 [col]47 [col]39 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]38 [col]+8 [col]1.03 [col]8

[row color=#bccde9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]9 [col]Fulham [col]37 [col]14 [col]10 [col]13 [col]48 [col]49 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]38 [col]-1 [col]1.03 [col]9

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[row color=#ffff00:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]15 [col]Aston Villa [col]37 [col]7 [col]17 [col]13 [col]37 [col]51 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]31 [col]-14 [col]0.84 [col]15

[row color=#bccde9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]16 [col]Wigan Athletic [col]37 [col]10 [col]10 [col]17 [col]39 [col]60 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]30 [col]-21 [col]0.81 [col]16

[row color=#bccde9:52790f1f7d][mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]17 [col]Queens Park Rangers [col]37 [col]10 [col]7 [col]20 [col]41 [col]63 [mcol color=#000000:52790f1f7d]27 [col]-22 [col]0.73 [col]17

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[AVFCforever1991]

Finally, looking at the win percentage in the top leagues across Europe, you see a similar trend.

Italy Seria A: Only Cesena and Novara (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Germany Bundesliga: Only Kaiserslautern (bottom) worse than Villa.

Spain La Liga: Only Racing Santander (bottom) worse than Villa.

France Ligue 1: Only Brest (3rd bottom) worse than Villa.

Portugal Primeira Liga: Only Feirense and Uniao de Leiria (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Ireland Premier League: Only Galway United (bottom) worse than Villa.

Scotland Premier League: Only Dunfermline (bottom) worse than Villa.

Netherlands Eredivisie: Only De Graafschap and Excelsior (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

That is **** appalling.

[SikhInTrinity]

B. Robinson that needs to be sent to the club!

[1968]

how many fans of other clubs in need of a manager some time soon would want mctwat as there manager ?

The media may talk shite about him but with real fans from other clubs that i have spoken to the game is up.

[Mantis]

how many fans of other clubs in need of a manager some time soon would want McLeish as there manager ?

The media may talk shite about him but with real fans from other clubs that i have spoken to the game is up.

Was talking to a Spurs fan before the game on Sunday and he said he can't stand McLeish because he said he never attacks (which is spot on). He also said, and I quote "we'll come to your place and play like the home team". Spot on as well.

I think there are a few idiots out there that just eat up all the shit served up by the media and think we don't like him because of where he came from but the large majority of fans recognise what a shit manager he is.

[chips'ngravy]

'PussEKatt' we lost our label as an attacking team once Downing and Young were sold.

Dont agree with that.We are still a team that prefers to attack,its just that without Downing and Young we dont do it as well.And then McLeish came along and now we have players that want to attack bieng told to defend.No wonder we are crap on the field, the players are bieng asked to play a style of football that is completly alien to them.

Attack with what exactly?

Before Keane was signed in January neither of our wingers was playing to form so no supply to Bent.

Very little creativity in midfield until Ireland started to find some form and when he did, then Bent got a bad injury.

However when Keane arrived in January we had more of an attacking threat through the middle but when Keane left that attacking threat went with him.

You also have to factor in Gabby's injury, his subsequent loss of form and please tell me how then could McLeish set us up as an attacking team?

He simply couldn't so he made us hard to beat to try and get enough points to keep us safe.

You are looking at the symptoms but ignoring the underlying disease.

NZogbia came to us on a high having almost single handedly keeping Wigan up.

Albrighton should have made this his break through season.

Ireland in and out of the team due to "illness" and "injury"

Gabby being played as a winger even though McLeish said he wouldnt

Bent touching the ball less than any other player in the premier league

All of those were down to bad luck and Downing/Young going.

Come off it.

New club and loss of form concerning N'Zogbia. It does happen you know.

Blaming the manager for Albrighton not breaking through this season is unfair. Albrighton isn't good enough and has shown that consistently this season.

Gabby was played on the wing due to a lack of form from our wide men.

Bent touching the ball less than any other player in the Premiership due to a complete lack of service from our wide men (see above) and of course the loss of our quality wingers Downing and Young.

Anything else?

Yes, one or two of those in isolation and you can say "these things happen", for them all to happen at once indicates your manager doesnt know what he is doing. Something born out by his results over the course of the season.

I respect you trying to find daisies in the shitpile, but not convinced by your arguments.

'Daisies in the shitpile' eh. Thats a new one on me

No worries mate about our debate. We all want him gone. I just don't think he is to blame for everything that has happened this season and i also think he has been given a poisoned chalice.

Amen to that brother! :-)

I think I have written elsewhere on here that a root and branch change is needed at the club so no arguments there. If we are to get the best out of the young players coming through and build something for the future we need to completely restructure the playing staff. All that said, McLeish has underperformed at every juncture of this season and his excuses are getting tiresome.

poor, poor manager and that is what matters.

Morpheus, I think it's a bit naive to under-estimate the influence the manager of a football club has on the way a team plays. It really hit home to me how much this was McLeish's fault during that spell before Christmas when we raised the white flag to the top 4 teams. Yes, Albrighton and N'Zogbia have been disappointing but you have to analyse the way the team has been set up to look at why that has been the case. I particularly recall the Man Utd home game when Albrighton received the ball out wide he had no option inside as our central midfield pairing were clearly under instructions to stay on the half-way line. So what happens? He has one option which is to run down the line. Easy to defend against. They can send 2 or even 3 players to close him down knowing all he can do is try and hoof it into the box under pressure, often a long way out. As a team we have been starved of possession such is McLeish's insistence of keeping everyone in our own box. This is in effect drains confidence when we do get the ball and a vicious circle develops. Hence why even possessing one of the best strikers in the league we are the second lowest goalscorers.

[jon_c]

Having family from that way, at least we're better than the Pars!

[smetrov]

Im confident he going now:-

All these statements to the press about planning for next season, how great delph is going to be, a list of targets - all say to me he hasn't had the 'Carry On Alex' call he was hoping for.

Hes trying to make a big deal of getting ready for next season - but the reality is he isn't sure himself.

[dudevillaisnice]

Finally, looking at the win percentage in the top leagues across Europe, you see a similar trend.

Italy Seria A: Only Cesena and Novara (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Germany Bundesliga: Only Kaiserslautern (bottom) worse than Villa.

Spain La Liga: Only Racing Santander (bottom) worse than Villa.

France Ligue 1: Only Brest (3rd bottom) worse than Villa.

Portugal Primeira Liga: Only Feirense and Uniao de Leiria (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Ireland Premier League: Only Galway United (bottom) worse than Villa.

Scotland Premier League: Only Dunfermline (bottom) worse than Villa.

Netherlands Eredivisie: Only De Graafschap and Excelsior (bottom and 2nd bottom) worse than Villa.

Jesus christ, that is shocking.

[thetrees]

how many fans of other clubs in need of a manager some time soon would want McLeish as there manager ?

The media may talk shite about him but with real fans from other clubs that i have spoken to the game is up.

Was talking to a Spurs fan before the game on Sunday and he said he can't stand McLeish because he said he never attacks (which is spot on). He also said, and I quote "we'll come to your place and play like the home team". Spot on as well.

I think there are a few idiots out there that just eat up all the shit served up by the media and think we don't like him because of where he came from but the large majority of fans recognise what a shit manager he is.

In fairness, Spurs fans do like to large it, and the fact that we had another dour game papered over the fact that Spurs were pretty shit. We conceded all the space in the world to ther star midfielder and, if the game was still going on now, they wouldn't have scored from open play.

The views of opposition supporters should be of zero concern.

[Mantis]

how many fans of other clubs in need of a manager some time soon would want McLeish as there manager ?

The media may talk shite about him but with real fans from other clubs that i have spoken to the game is up.

Was talking to a Spurs fan before the game on Sunday and he said he can't stand McLeish because he said he never attacks (which is spot on). He also said, and I quote "we'll come to your place and play like the home team". Spot on as well.

I think there are a few idiots out there that just eat up all the shit served up by the media and think we don't like him because of where he came from but the large majority of fans recognise what a shit manager he is.

In fairness, Spurs fans do like to large it, and the fact that we had another dour game papered over the fact that Spurs were pretty shit. We conceded all the space in the world to ther star midfielder and, if the game was still going on now, they wouldn't have scored from open play.

The views of opposition supporters should be of zero concern.

He was right though. He wasn't hyping up Spurs, he was just saying how terrible and negative McLeish is.

[SikhInTrinity]

Where did the Spurs fan say he'd hammer us? They said they would play like the 'Home' team which to be fair they did. Lets remember which is often forgotten Spurs had 10 Men and still dominated us! Apart from the goal did we even test Friedel!

[AVFCforever1991]

Im guessing Mcleish will end up at Blackburn or Wolves.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

If he stays and is here in the first day of next season is there a point where we admit defeat and just let them have it.

With him still there and the board so clueless its painfull there is a point where its just not our club anymore, if they keep him on then that's the biggest 2 finger salute to the fans they could ever do.

Start a new club from the ground up that reflects what AVFC is all about because they are stripping it of any dignity it had left IMO. They are going to kill it eventually, do we all need to be there when the vet turns up ?

Even with a new manager what exactley is there to look forward to short to medium term, feed the top 6 a bit, fight relegation and not be the top club in the midlands which was all we had to be honest that was of any significance to us and even that sounds a bit meh these days.

Yes the Karl Henry (It might as well be Karl Pilkington for all the good he would do us) link is probabley BS but that is the kind of player we will be buying for the wages on offer. I read it this morning and thought it a joke but if not him it will be someone like Ridgewell back or similar.