The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[djamfisher]

djamfisher wrote

Villa fans know exactly about Saunders' past before the Villa that's why employing ex-noses wouldn't be a problem were they qualifies enough.

All your credibility has gone mate if you think Sir Ron came from the B-lose! - I think the OP meant Peter Withe #getyoutfactsright

I know, sorry typing in a haste, as at work.

[Pricey_1984]

to be honest i dont think many managers stand a chance here let alone one who has come from our rivals, there were still people moaning when we were getting 6th place finishes and to a cup semi and cup final when MON was here.

[wiggyrichard]

djamfisher wrote

Villa fans know exactly about Saunders' past before the Villa that's why employing ex-noses wouldn't be a problem were they qualifies enough.

All your credibility has gone mate if you think Sir Ron came from the B-lose! - I think the OP meant Peter Withe #getyoutfactsright

#werenotontwitternowsononeedforthehashtagthingy

[holtelower]

Eames

Teyke a booow son, teyke a boow

[Eames]

Eames

Teyke a booow son, teyke a boow

You warm me to my very soul.

8)

[macandally]

Man Yoo I agree, but Liverplop? Seriously?

We spent money, we just wasted it. Now we have to do things the hard way and build for the future. Money does not gaurantee success!

liverpool might not be one of the biggest clubs now but when the majority of top european players were born in the early 80s liverpool where a big club for them growing up and they will want to play for them.

we dont have the money to compete with these sorts of clubs, we need more youth players along with a better scouting network.

mcliesh got zarate and benitez to blues

if we sign players like this and tell them they can get a move to a really big club it is the only way that we can challenge

Ah so your actually agreeing with me?

You see I thought you said that we needed to spend big money to compete, now you actually agree that it is possible by putting in place an infrastructure that develops our own talent (which in fairness, is pretty much there at the moment), plays football the right way from the youth to the first team and has a scouting infrastructure that includes scouts with passports we might be able to compete?

[nick76]

So we have got to one place.....with varying degrees obviously from people who don't want him but we are stuck with him so give him a chance to people who don't want him and want him out now? So nobody still actually wants him here......says everything!

[Keyblade]

So we have got to one place.....with varying degrees obviously from people who don't want him but we are stuck with him so give him a chance to people who don't want him and want him out now? So nobody still actually wants him here......says everything!

That's the gist of it. But apparently there are some who revere 'GC' as some sort of messiah for simply expressing the former opinion.

[caw2510]

Man Yoo I agree, but Liverplop? Seriously?

We spent money, we just wasted it. Now we have to do things the hard way and build for the future. Money does not gaurantee success!

liverpool might not be one of the biggest clubs now but when the majority of top european players were born in the early 80s liverpool where a big club for them growing up and they will want to play for them.

we dont have the money to compete with these sorts of clubs, we need more youth players along with a better scouting network.

mcliesh got zarate and benitez to blues

if we sign players like this and tell them they can get a move to a really big club it is the only way that we can challenge

Ah so your actually agreeing with me?

You see I thought you said that we needed to spend big money to compete, now you actually agree that it is possible by putting in place an infrastructure that develops our own talent (which in fairness, is pretty much there at the moment), plays football the right way from the youth to the first team and has a scouting infrastructure that includes scouts with passports we might be able to compete?

i still think that to be a really top club we will need to spend a lot of money buti agree with you, that we will need to improve scouting but you cannot deny spurs have and always will spend a lot more than us and unfortunatly because they are in london it is more attractive for players to go there then birmingham.

we need to find new ways to attract players

[barry'sboots]

Ah so your actually agreeing with me?

You see I thought you said that we needed to spend big money to compete, now you actually agree that it is possible by putting in place an infrastructure that develops our own talent (which in fairness, is pretty much there at the moment), plays football the right way from the youth to the first team and has a scouting infrastructure that includes scouts with passports we might be able to compete?

A agree. The only issue is that the GC doesn't know how to balance a team - mixing appropriate pro's with good youngsters - or how to play football properly at 1st team level. Examples of this are putting GG or Delph alongside Stan in a two man CM - just doesn't work and leaves us very short-handed in the CM.

[macandally]

I'll answer happily.

I think the abuse AM has recieved is pathetic. I think that the attitude of some fans on here is pathetic. The real reason people have a problem with AM is that he used to manage the Blues. His style of football is workmanlike but do you know what.... I'm not sure how else we are supposed to play having sold Downing and Young over the summer.

I think AM needs to be given time to put HIS mark on the team and that will take 2 years, especially with the spending restrictions he is subject to.

I think that posters who resort to "what a clearing in the woods" "Ginger word removed" and other arguements devoid of reasoning or sense need to have a word with themselves.

I appreciate I am in the minority but do you know what, I like the guy... and I really hope he succeeds.

thanks good reply. I would ask a question though, why do you think people like me don't like him mainly because he managed the blues. I admit I hate the blues, but his being a blues manager previously has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about him now. In stark contrast I would love him to be successful just so I can turn around to my blue nose mates and gloat that we pinched a great thing from them who will be a legend at our club. So if anything him being at blues and we pinching him I want him to succeed to rub it in my mates faces. Failure they can just say they sold us a lemon. Surely that makes more sense than me wanting him to fail.

His record is my issue, how his teams play, he is unimagative, he makes constant errors, he can't react when other manages do, he's not fixing problems that are happening over and over again, international players don't seem to know what to do, tactics seem one dimensional at best and can't change, his excuses are pitiful and we generally 9 times out of 10 look the poorer team in games......that's my reasoning and that's why I want him gone now. I want to build on a team with a manager over the next 5 to 10 years as we go through this phase we are in with money restrictions.

We, as fans, need to believe in a manager that can do that but with McLeish we can't and the fans seem to be agreeing with me....low crowds, booing at games, forums in meltdown and media commenting.....it's so detrimental to the club that it has to change now or more likely the summer so this club can consolidate and build for the future. McLeish is not the answer and will never be because too many people don't think he's good enough and he isn't, I'm not backing a manager just because I hear the term we need to get behind him....getting behind the wrong person is just foolish. If there is a problem you fix it and move on, we have a problem and it needs fixing before we can move on.

I agree 100%, trouble is, you are knocking on wood!

[brummybloke]

So we have got to one place.....with varying degrees obviously from people who don't want him but we are stuck with him so give him a chance to people who don't want him and want him out now? So nobody still actually wants him here......says everything!

That's the gist of it. But apparently there are some who revere 'GC' as some sort of messiah for simply expressing the former opinion.

nope those people are the ones who defend the manager under any circumstance even when its clear that he has made mistakes.

who make excuses for his poor managerial decisions and lack of tactical awareness.

everyone makes mistakes, when people dont admit those mistakes but try and lie or cover them up or make weak excsuses for them it makes them less credible in my eyes.

some crackers such as

hutton only gets stick becuase GC signed him

GC only gets stick because he is ex blues

he has a weak squad to work with so its not his fault

he didnt get a full preseason

he hasnt been able to sign the players he wants

he is not defensive minded, it was the teams he inheritted and he had to utilise those teams how he saw fit

and other such nonesense which gets repeated all the time

and it is always the same posters

for them there is no errors, no mistakes, he can do no wrong in their eyes

a saviour of the club who cant be critisized

even when MON was riding high, if he did something stupid, i would post that it was stupid, and i was sold on MON being at our club for the next 10 years and building something great, but when he messed up i would not pretend it hadnt happened or try and blame someone else just because he was doing well in most of the things he did.

just llike fans of man utd dont always say everything SAF does is correct.

slightly different to what you claim which was

"apparently there are some who revere 'GC' as some sort of messiah for simply expressing the former opinion"

i also notice as per the norm on here that the vocal supporters still have not said what would make them change their mind of the manager

lots of dodging the question or answering other things other than the simple question

it must be very confusing for them

[thetrees]

I'll answer happily.

I think the abuse AM has recieved is pathetic. I think that the attitude of some fans on here is pathetic. The real reason people have a problem with AM is that he used to manage the Blues. His style of football is workmanlike but do you know what.... I'm not sure how else we are supposed to play having sold Downing and Young over the summer.

I think AM needs to be given time to put HIS mark on the team and that will take 2 years, especially with the spending restrictions he is subject to.

I think that posters who resort to "what a clearing in the woods" "Ginger word removed" and other arguements devoid of reasoning or sense need to have a word with themselves.

I appreciate I am in the minority but do you know what, I like the guy... and I really hope he succeeds.

thanks good reply. I would ask a question though, why do you think people like me don't like him mainly because he managed the blues. I admit I hate the blues, but his being a blues manager previously has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about him now. In stark contrast I would love him to be successful just so I can turn around to my blue nose mates and gloat that we pinched a great thing from them who will be a legend at our club. So if anything him being at blues and we pinching him I want him to succeed to rub it in my mates faces. Failure they can just say they sold us a lemon. Surely that makes more sense than me wanting him to fail.

His record is my issue, how his teams play, he is unimagative, he makes constant errors, he can't react when other manages do, he's not fixing problems that are happening over and over again, international players don't seem to know what to do, tactics seem one dimensional at best and can't change, his excuses are pitiful and we generally 9 times out of 10 look the poorer team in games......that's my reasoning and that's why I want him gone now. I want to build on a team with a manager over the next 5 to 10 years as we go through this phase we are in with money restrictions.

We, as fans, need to believe in a manager that can do that but with McLeish we can't and the fans seem to be agreeing with me....low crowds, booing at games, forums in meltdown and media commenting.....it's so detrimental to the club that it has to change now or more likely the summer so this club can consolidate and build for the future. McLeish is not the answer and will never be because too many people don't think he's good enough and he isn't, I'm not backing a manager just because I hear the term we need to get behind him....getting behind the wrong person is just foolish. If there is a problem you fix it and move on, we have a problem and it needs fixing before we can move on.

I don't agree with you, but it's nice to see a McLeish critic come up with a rational post that makes positive debate, rather than the vitriolic crap that is posted by the McLeish haters on this forum.

A very worthwhile contribution.

[thetrees]

Interestingly, so far at least, nothing points to him being a crap manager.

O'Neill had his bust ups with players, notably Carew, but there may have been others.

Houllier created a situation where there was some kind of rebellion going on.

With McLeish, there has been the 'disciplinary matter' with N'Zogbia, without too much controversy, and of course the handling of Bannan, pulling him out of the front line, was excellent management.

Tactics, style of play etc. is something that everyone can criticise, but as far as being a manager of people is concerned, he seems to be doing a pretty good job.

small edit:

N.B. O'Neill and Houllier may have been in the right, and thus also good managers-just noting that they had their bust ups

[Keyblade]

So we have got to one place.....with varying degrees obviously from people who don't want him but we are stuck with him so give him a chance to people who don't want him and want him out now? So nobody still actually wants him here......says everything!

That's the gist of it. But apparently there are some who revere 'GC' as some sort of messiah for simply expressing the former opinion.

nope those people are the ones who defend the manager under any circumstance even when its clear that he has made mistakes.

who make excuses for his poor managerial decisions and lack of tactical awareness.

everyone makes mistakes, when people dont admit those mistakes but try and lie or cover them up or make weak excsuses for them it makes them less credible in my eyes.

some crackers such as

hutton only gets stick becuase GC signed him

GC only gets stick because he is ex blues

he has a weak squad to work with so its not his fault

he didnt get a full preseason

he hasnt been able to sign the players he wants

he is not defensive minded, it was the teams he inheritted and he had to utilise those teams how he saw fit

and other such nonesense which gets repeated all the time

and it is always the same posters

for them there is no errors, no mistakes, he can do no wrong in their eyes

a saviour of the club who cant be critisized

even when MON was riding high, if he did something stupid, i would post that it was stupid, and i was sold on MON being at our club for the next 10 years and building something great, but when he messed up i would not pretend it hadnt happened or try and blame someone else just because he was doing well in most of the things he did.

just llike fans of man utd dont always say everything SAF does is correct.

slightly different to what you claim which was

"apparently there are some who revere 'GC' as some sort of messiah for simply expressing the former opinion"

i also notice as per the norm on here that the vocal supporters still have not said what would make them change their mind of the manager

lots of dodging the question or answering other things other than the simple question

it must be very confusing for them

Firstly barely anybody actually 'supports' him.

Also, those who you claim "for them there is no errors, no mistakes, he can do no wrong in their eyes a saviour of the club who cant be critisized" are completely in your head. It is simply your (rather childish) perception of those who don't agree with you.

[holtelower]

Its not blind optimism, it is knowing reality, and the reality is this.

Randy Lerner gambled, MON said give me a shed load of money and I will get you CL football. If he succeeded, that shed load of money would have been repaid in extra revenue.

The gamble failed and because of that, we are now in a financial mess.

Now whether you blame Lerner, Faulkner or O'Neill (thats another debate) that is the fact.

So we now have McLeish. And his brief is to sort out the mess.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE DONE IN SIX MONTHS !!!!!!

We have lost our "big" players. And nothing could be done about it. Barry and Young were coming up to out of contract and said they would not resign. Milner said he wanted out, and Downing did the dirty on us.

NONE OF THAT WAS MCLEISH's FAULT.

He then has a lot of shite on big wages that will be gone in June, Beye, Cueller and Heskey the three main ones, and probably a few more (I dont class these as shit) "older" players on big wages , Petrov, Collins, maybe Dunne, Warnock etc.....

NONE OF THIS IS MCLEISH's FAULT - he didn't sign them, he didn't give them the wages.

SO

Until McLeish has had time to sort this lot out, I will give him a fair crack of the whip. Thats not saying I like him, or I wanted him, its saying I'll back him.

I accepted at the start of the season that this was going to be a dodgy year, some good, some bad, some even ugly. And that is what we have.

We are 11th, we could be 8th tomorrow, and given the circumstances, if we are, I would suggest McLeish is punching well above his weight.

Onto Transfer topic, I am more than happy to just go with what we have, give the kids more gametime, sort out the wheat (what seems at the moment to be Herd, Gardner, Clark, Alby etc..) from the chaff (what appears to be Lowry, I know hes gone, Hogg - gone etc...)

And then when we know which kids will make it (still got to look at Guzan, Lichaj, Bannan to a certain extent, Weimann and Fonz)

THEN let McLeish buy players that we need !.

AND THEN JUDGE BOTH HIM, HIS APPOINTMENT AND THE RESULTS

until then, lay off him, coz I remember in 1987 - a certain GT team being in the bottom 3 of the Championship in November, about 9th at about this time the same year in the same division ,

the selling big players like McInally and replacing them with no ones like Olney

AND TWO YEARS LATER WHEN HE HAD DONE JUST THIS WE WERE RUNNERS UP TO LIVERPOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

and at the end of this tiime, which I would say is end of next season then slag off McLeish and his signings, but until he / his signings fail - LEAVE IT OUT

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Interestingly, so far at least, nothing points to him being a crap manager.

O'Neill had his bust ups with players, notably Carew, but there may have been others.

Houllier created a situation where there was some kind of rebellion going on.

With McLeish, there has been the 'disciplinary matter' with N'Zogbia, without too much controversy, and of course the handling of Bannan, pulling him out of the front line, was excellent management.

Tactics, style of play etc. is something that everyone can criticise, but as far as being a manager of people is concerned, he seems to be doing a pretty good job.

small edit:

N.B. O'Neill and Houllier may have been in the right, and thus also good managers-just noting that they had their bust ups

But surely tactics/style of play etc...comes under management?

[thetrees]

Interestingly, so far at least, nothing points to him being a crap manager.

O'Neill had his bust ups with players, notably Carew, but there may have been others.

Houllier created a situation where there was some kind of rebellion going on.

With McLeish, there has been the 'disciplinary matter' with N'Zogbia, without too much controversy, and of course the handling of Bannan, pulling him out of the front line, was excellent management.

Tactics, style of play etc. is something that everyone can criticise, but as far as being a manager of people is concerned, he seems to be doing a pretty good job.

small edit:

N.B. O'Neill and Houllier may have been in the right, and thus also good managers-just noting that they had their bust ups

But surely tactics/style of play etc...comes under management?

I would say that surely it comes under coaching, hence my making the management definition.

[brummybloke]

Interestingly, so far at least, nothing points to him being a crap manager.

O'Neill had his bust ups with players, notably Carew, but there may have been others.

Houllier created a situation where there was some kind of rebellion going on.

With McLeish, there has been the 'disciplinary matter' with N'Zogbia, without too much controversy, and of course the handling of Bannan, pulling him out of the front line, was excellent management.

Tactics, style of play etc. is something that everyone can criticise, but as far as being a manager of people is concerned, he seems to be doing a pretty good job.

small edit:

N.B. O'Neill and Houllier may have been in the right, and thus also good managers-just noting that they had their bust ups

But surely tactics/style of play etc...comes under management?

uh oh, now you've done it.

[nick76]

Its not blind optimism, it is knowing reality, and the reality is this.

Randy Lerner gambled, MON said give me a shed load of money and I will get you CL football. If he succeeded, that shed load of money would have been repaid in extra revenue.

The gamble failed and because of that, we are now in a financial mess.

Now whether you blame Lerner, Faulkner or O'Neill (thats another debate) that is the fact.

So we now have McLeish. And his brief is to sort out the mess.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE DONE IN SIX MONTHS !!!!!!

We have lost our "big" players. And nothing could be done about it. Barry and Young were coming up to out of contract and said they would not resign. Milner said he wanted out, and Downing did the dirty on us.

NONE OF THAT WAS MCLEISH's FAULT.

He then has a lot of shite on big wages that will be gone in June, Beye, Cueller and Heskey the three main ones, and probably a few more (I dont class these as shit) "older" players on big wages , Petrov, Collins, maybe Dunne, Warnock etc.....

NONE OF THIS IS MCLEISH's FAULT - he didn't sign them, he didn't give them the wages.

SO

Until McLeish has had time to sort this lot out, I will give him a fair crack of the whip. Thats not saying I like him, or I wanted him, its saying I'll back him.

I accepted at the start of the season that this was going to be a dodgy year, some good, some bad, some even ugly. And that is what we have.

We are 11th, we could be 8th tomorrow, and given the circumstances, if we are, I would suggest McLeish is punching well above his weight.

Onto Transfer topic, I am more than happy to just go with what we have, give the kids more gametime, sort out the wheat (what seems at the moment to be Herd, Gardner, Clark, Alby etc..) from the chaff (what appears to be Lowry, I know hes gone, Hogg - gone etc...)

And then when we know which kids will make it (still got to look at Guzan, Lichaj, Bannan to a certain extent, Weimann and Fonz)

THEN let McLeish buy players that we need !.

AND THEN JUDGE BOTH HIM, HIS APPOINTMENT AND THE RESULTS

until then, lay off him, coz I remember in 1987 - a certain GT team being in the bottom 3 of the Championship in November, about 9th at about this time the same year in the same division ,

the selling big players like McInally and replacing them with no ones like Olney

AND TWO YEARS LATER WHEN HE HAD DONE JUST THIS WE WERE RUNNERS UP TO LIVERPOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

and at the end of this tiime, which I would say is end of next season then slag off McLeish and his signings, but until he / his signings fail - LEAVE IT OUT

whose said the parts you have mentioned are McLeish's fault? McLeish isn't good enough and I've explained my reasoning in prior posts. With money being tight and us having to pay him out when we do eventually fire him as with what happens with most managers, then get him out now. He's proved he isn't god enough so I don't want to wait another 18 months to sit here in the same position or worse having spent some of our restricted money and then having to start over again. Comparing GT though, while I agree about the position in the league there was at least a bit of hope and you could see he had talent.