sne Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Under Houllier we got 33 points in 28 games. This equates to about 45 points a season. Under McLeish's first 5 games we've got 7 points which at the moment equates to 52 points a season. Houllier managed this with Kyle Walker, Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing, Ashley Young and Luke Young. All these would walk into McLeish's team. Only Shay Given would have got into Houllier's team last season. McLeish's aim this season is lower than Houllier's last year. So were playing worse and getting better results ATM, McLeish is still streets ahead. This would be relevant IF we had the same schedule as last season, we don't. Therefore you really can't compare untill we played all the teams once. Walker didn't join the team until january, same as Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Under Houllier we got 33 points in 28 games. This equates to about 45 points a season. Under McLeish's first 5 games we've got 7 points which at the moment equates to 52 points a season. Houllier managed this with Kyle Walker, Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing, Ashley Young and Luke Young. All these would walk into McLeish's team. Only Shay Given would have got into Houllier's team last season. McLeish's aim this season is lower than Houllier's last year. So were playing worse and getting better results ATM, McLeish is still streets ahead. This would be relevant IF we had the same schedule as last season, we don't. Therefore you really can't compare untill we played all the teams once. Walker didn't join the team until january, same as Bent. Yes your right, but Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing and Ashley Young were our 3 best players last season. We haven't replaced Young, haven't seen Reo-Cokers replacement yet(Jenas, Houllier tried Makoun but he was shit) and its clear N'Zogbia is taking his time settling in(it took Young and Downing 6 months). At the end of the day, in the league(the results that truly matter) we are unbeaten, after half the team than finished last season has been changed and got weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Under Houllier we got 33 points in 28 games. This equates to about 45 points a season. Under McLeish's first 5 games we've got 7 points which at the moment equates to 52 points a season. Houllier managed this with Kyle Walker, Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing, Ashley Young and Luke Young. All these would walk into McLeish's team. Only Shay Given would have got into Houllier's team last season. McLeish's aim this season is lower than Houllier's last year. So were playing worse and getting better results ATM, McLeish is still streets ahead. This would be relevant IF we had the same schedule as last season, we don't. Therefore you really can't compare untill we played all the teams once. Walker didn't join the team until january, same as Bent. Yes your right, but Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing and Ashley Young were our 3 best players last season. We haven't replaced Young, haven't seen Reo-Cokers replacement yet(Jenas, Houllier tried Makoun but he was shit) and its clear N'Zogbia is taking his time settling in(it took Young and Downing 6 months). At the end of the day, in the league(the results that truly matter) we are unbeaten, after half the team than finished last season has been changed and got weaker. Fair enough, in my opinion your not wrong, but your not right either. But to say that McLeish is still streets ahead... I can't agree on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ATM he is, on and especially off the pitch. I didn't want McLeish i still think its the most idiotic managerial appointment in premier league history, mainly due to the fact he has no honeymoon period. He's trying to get to grips with the squad and people want him out already. Look at "King" Kenny. Same points in the league, after spending £100 million . Lost the last 2 games, including a battering at Spurs, and not a peep. Why...because the fans love "King" Kenny, he gets more time that Hodgson certainly didn't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Houllier had 1/2 the squad out injured at one stage. Yet not once did he moan about resources, every single time he just got on with it and still put out a side that had a go..This was despite him joining the club when the team looked out of sorts after a 6-0 thrashing against Newcastle.And never having a pre-season with the players..McLeish has the land of luxury compared to the situation Houllier had when he joined. So even with all these players hating Houllier, he still put out a good side and gave us a game of football. Man United, Chelsea, Man City plus loads more we had great games to watch with good football and tactics.. Yet McLeish with supposedly all the players on his side, cant muster up a footballing performance...Its poor tactics and crap football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, but the problem with Houllier, and you just cant get away from it, he fell out with a significant number of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, but the problem with Houllier, and you just cant get away from it, he fell out with a significant number of the squad. Who cares about that, the players that dont play ball would have been replaced..Houllier isnt scared of players, he dosnt live in a world where they are indispensable..If one dont play, their is another that will play..He would have built the squad and club up..There is no room for spoilt little slackers that think Aston Villa is just a push over..He wants professionals that take the role seriously, not guys that want 10 pts a lager on a Sat night and laugh and joke in training. Thats what last season was all about...Sorting the realists from the slackers..He was building and teaching..Those that didnt want to know,he didnt have time for..Why teach players that dont take role seriously enough, or that think they know best? Houllier HAS coached and had major imput in world class players that are still playing football at the top of todays game. He knew exactly the levels he wanted to achieve in player training..And he knew exactly which players would make the grade and which wouldnt.. He played every single outfield player that was available to him in the 1st team squad last season....Which is manager testing his squad and giving players the opportunity to shine..This included players like Carew, Sidwell, Ireland, Warnock etc..The slate was fair and clean and it was up to the players to impress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I would really hate to see how bad we would be with Houllier as manager with this squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So even with all these players hating Houllier, he still put out a good side and gave us a game of football. Man United, Chelsea, Man City plus loads more we had great games to watch with good football and tactics I think last season was one of least pleasurable of watching Aston Villa since DOL’s last season or the return of GT. It was not an enjoyable experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So even with all these players hating Houllier, he still put out a good side and gave us a game of football. Man United, Chelsea, Man City plus loads more we had great games to watch with good football and tactics I think last season was one of least pleasurable of watching Aston Villa since DOL’s last season or the return of GT. It was not an enjoyable experience. And I don't this this season will be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So even with all these players hating Houllier, he still put out a good side and gave us a game of football. Man United, Chelsea, Man City plus loads more we had great games to watch with good football and tactics I think last season was one of least pleasurable of watching Aston Villa since DOL’s last season or the return of GT. It was not an enjoyable experience. You were brainwashed mate because you only looked a poor performances by Dunne and Collins and the results it effected..What you should have done is look at the improvements in players like Downing, Reo, Albrighton, Bannan and how it complimented Darren Bent's game..We seen movement from "last season's reserve players" that ripped Man United and Chelsea appart at times. This would have grown and been bulit on..This was Houllier at the beginning, yet many fans like you just failed to notice it. As it is we now have a manager that knows naff all about how to improve our young players and their game play. You wont see movement like that this season. And its like I said in another post...Take a look at the whole of last season again on wikipedia and try to remember each game we played..Yet only a handfull you could seriously say where we were out played by the opossition..The majority of the games we played under Houllier, we either matched or dominated our opponanants.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, but the problem with Houllier, and you just cant get away from it, he fell out with a significant number of the squad. Who cares about that, the players that dont play ball would have been replaced..Houllier isnt scared of players, he dosnt live in a world where they are indispensable..If one dont play, their is another that will play..He would have built the squad and club up..There is no room for spoilt little slackers that think Aston Villa is just a push over..He wants professionals that take the role seriously, not guys that want 10 pts a lager on a Sat night and laugh and joke in training. Thats what last season was all about...Sorting the realists from the slackers..He was building and teaching..Those that didnt want to know,he didnt have time for..Why teach players that dont take role seriously enough, or that think they know best? Houllier HAS coached and had major imput in world class players that are still playing football at the top of todays game. He knew exactly the levels he wanted to achieve in player training..And he knew exactly which players would make the grade and which wouldnt.. He played every single outfield player that was available to him in the 1st team squad last season....Which is manager testing his squad and giving players the opportunity to shine..This included players like Carew, Sidwell, Ireland, Warnock etc..The slate was fair and clean and it was up to the players to impress... He also very nearly got us relegated because he treated professionals like children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 and don't for one second pretend that the football was good last season, it was absolute shite, and not 'great to watch' in any way, shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted September 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2011 Houlier on Downing leaving surely even a Tom Hobbins could see Houlliers had no loyalty to the Villa at all............ :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So even with all these players hating Houllier, he still put out a good side and gave us a game of football. Man United, Chelsea, Man City plus loads more we had great games to watch with good football and tactics I think last season was one of least pleasurable of watching Aston Villa since DOL’s last season or the return of GT. It was not an enjoyable experience. You were brainwashed mate because you only looked a poor performances by Dunne and Collins and the results it effected..What you should have done is look at the improvements in players like Downing, Reo, Albrighton, Bannan and how it complimented Darren Bent's game..We seen movement from "last season's reserve players" that ripped Man United and Chelsea appart at times. This would have grown and been bulit on..This was Houllier at the beginning, yet many fans like you just failed to notice it. As it is we now have a manager that knows naff all about how to improve our young players and their game play. You wont see movement like that this season. And its like I said in another post...Take a look at the whole of last season again on wikipedia and try to remember each game we played..Yet only a handfull you could seriously say where we were out played by the opossition..The majority of the games we played under Houllier, we either matched or dominated our opponanants.. I was not brainwashed. I haven’t accused you of that, so don’t say that of me. This isn’t me trying to say that McLeish is better, what I am saying is that I simply didn’t enjoy watching Aston Villa last season. Yes we had highlights; but you can find them in the GT second coming and in the last year of DOL. The majority of last season was painful to watch. I don’t think I am in the minority? Or have we all been brainwashed? I am not some fan who didn’t want Houllier to be successful. I wanted him to be successful, because that would mean Villa would be successful. I was delighted when we did well. Sadly most of the time it wasn’t that at all. Would Houllier have ever been successful? I doubt it. I doubt it even more if he had lost Young and Downing. He would have had to deal with a tightening purse string and a disgruntled squad. I doubt that he would have had the energy for the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 He also very nearly got us relegated because he treated professionals like children. To a man that never managed before, this may have substance...But unfortunately too many a great player and fellow managers, coaches, trainers, scouts that have been places have a different view.. I would rather put it, that maybe had Dunne and Collins acted like professionals, they may have benefited from the new techniques that were coming before their eyes. Instead I think they acted like spoilt brats, just because maybe their friend MON walked out, or maybe because their friend K'Mac didnt get the job, or because training was too hard for them..Whatever.. For Dunne to try and get a posse of players to go against the system was so childish..Why didnt he just go and have a quiet word with Houllier instead? Why didnt he just say he was 100% behind the new system but is finding it a bit difficult? Why just throw your toys out the pram and not accept it? Its a proven top tier system.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having followed this great club for just over 30 years, been a season ticket holder for last 23 years and having gone to every single game home and away bar three last season I have to say the football served up under Houllier was some of the worst I've seen. It was in the main gutless tippy tappy tripe. The performances against Liverpool away, Man city away ( twice ) Wolves and Sunderland at home were an absolute disgrace and the games against Blackburn and Blackpool away, Spurs, Sha and Arsenal at home were not much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted September 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2011 He also very nearly got us relegated because he treated professionals like children. For Dunne to try and get a posse of players to go against the system was so childish..Why didnt he just go and have a quiet word with Houllier instead? Why didnt he just say he was 100% behind the new system but is finding it a bit difficult? Why just throw your toys out the pram and not accept it? Its a proven top tier system.. Because GH did not speak to the players and was never at training, he was approached but nothing changed, his french fitness trainer has a rep, check it out, and nothing changed at the Villa, the guys to old, he touched the L Pool pigeon,(or whatever it was) Could you imagine AM returning to the SHA and touching there two big balls.........mmmm though so lol, Tom or is Dick or Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Whether the players were right to complain or not has absolutely nothing to do with it, Houllier was the manager and his number one concern should have been getting the results. He almost got us relegated and that is his fault, he needed to manage the players we had to get the maximum potential from them and he didn't do it. Failure as a manager of Aston Villa, and would have continued to fail had he been in the job for longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, but the problem with Houllier, and you just cant get away from it, he fell out with a significant number of the squad. Who cares about that, the players that dont play ball would have been replaced..Houllier isnt scared of players, he dosnt live in a world where they are indispensable..If one dont play, their is another that will play..He would have built the squad and club up..There is no room for spoilt little slackers that think Aston Villa is just a push over..He wants professionals that take the role seriously, not guys that want 10 pts a lager on a Sat night and laugh and joke in training. Thats what last season was all about...Sorting the realists from the slackers..He was building and teaching..Those that didnt want to know,he didnt have time for..Why teach players that dont take role seriously enough, or that think they know best? Houllier HAS coached and had major imput in world class players that are still playing football at the top of todays game. He knew exactly the levels he wanted to achieve in player training..And he knew exactly which players would make the grade and which wouldnt.. He played every single outfield player that was available to him in the 1st team squad last season....Which is manager testing his squad and giving players the opportunity to shine..This included players like Carew, Sidwell, Ireland, Warnock etc..The slate was fair and clean and it was up to the players to impress...He bought Makoun, his only on budget signing (Bent was a hugely extravagant outlay from the terrible board some think we have). Makoun, despite some VT'ers world class labelling had to be carried through games by the supposedly inferior players he fell out with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts