Mantis Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The Fonz is better than Jerome. So too is Heskey. Bent and Gabby are streets ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2011 No reasoning from bickster, what a surprise. Try reading the topic, reasoning was all in there before you posted. I don't see why I or anyone else should respond to your post with anything other than a lack of respect, it's only the same as your post shows the rest of us tbh its your post that pretty insulting, plenty of people not just myself have said why they reason Houllier to be worse than McLeish, as a consequence of that, your post really reads... "I can't be bothered reading what other people have posted but I'll have a pop at them anyway". If you can't see why people can and do make legitimate arguments then why bother posting at all? All our thoughts are there, if you can't be bothered to read them that's your problem, if you can't understand them, sorry but I can't help you. But in a nutshell, Houllier is a fraud, he's done nothing in the premier league ever, in fact he's done little of note when you analyse it for over 15 years and he was an absolute disaster at Villa. He was far from a success at Liverpool and he was worse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 No reasoning from bickster, what a surprise. Try reading the topic, reasoning was all in there before you posted. I don't see why I or anyone else should respond to your post with anything other than a lack of respect, it's only the same as your post shows the rest of us tbh its your post that pretty insulting, plenty of people not just myself have said why they reason Houllier to be worse than McLeish, as a consequence of that, your post really reads... "I can't be bothered reading what other people have posted but I'll have a pop at them anyway". If you can't see why people can and do make legitimate arguments then why bother posting at all? All our thoughts are there, if you can't be bothered to read them that's your problem, if you can't understand them, sorry but I can't help you. But in a nutshell, Houllier is a fraud, he's done nothing in the premier league ever, in fact he's done little of note when you analyse it for over 15 years and he was an absolute disaster at Villa. He was far from a success at Liverpool and he was worse here.If 2 league cups, an FA cup and a UEFA Cup is "far from a success" then I'd love to see what success looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 But in a nutshell, Houllier is a fraud, he's done nothing in the premier league ever, in fact he's done little of note when you analyse it for over 15 years and he was an absolute disaster at Villa. He was far from a success at Liverpool and he was worse here. Liverpool UEFA Cup: 2001 UEFA Super Cup: 2001 FA Cup: 2001 Football League Cup: 2001, 2003 FA Community Shield: 2001 Yes 6 trophies in less than 3 years, a massive failure. Next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2011 If 2 league cups, an FA cup and a UEFA Cup is "far from a success" then I'd love to see what success looks like. Which one of those competitions is called the Premier League? This is Liverpool we're talking about. His brief was the Champions League and the Premier League with an emphasis on the Premier League a competition Liverpool should have had a realistic shout at give their position, stature and finances at the time. He absolutely wrecked their Youth set up (its just about recovered now), spent a fortune and won them some minor trophies their board / fans didn't really regard as important at the time. They'd bite your hand off for them now but that is down to his and Benitez' legacy, they between them wrecked Liverpool as a major force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If 2 league cups, an FA cup and a UEFA Cup is "far from a success" then I'd love to see what success looks like. Which one of those competitions is called the Premier League? This is Liverpool we're talking about. His brief was the Champions League and the Premier League with an emphasis on the Premier League a competition Liverpool should have had a realistic shout at give their position, stature and finances at the time. He absolutely wrecked their Youth set up (its just about recovered now), spent a fortune and won them some minor trophies their board / fans didn't really regard as important at the time. They'd bite your hand off for them now but that is down to his and Benitez' legacy, they between them wrecked Liverpool as a major force.You said "he was far from a success with Liverpool". I was responding to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2011 But in a nutshell, Houllier is a fraud, he's done nothing in the premier league ever, in fact he's done little of note when you analyse it for over 15 years and he was an absolute disaster at Villa. He was far from a success at Liverpool and he was worse here. Liverpool UEFA Cup: 2001 UEFA Super Cup: 2001 FA Cup: 2001 Football League Cup: 2001, 2003 FA Community Shield: 2001 Yes 6 trophies in less than 3 years, a massive failure. Next... Oh please, two of those are exhibition matches and none of those were part of his brief at the time. He was so successful, he was sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2011 If 2 league cups, an FA cup and a UEFA Cup is "far from a success" then I'd love to see what success looks like. Which one of those competitions is called the Premier League? This is Liverpool we're talking about. His brief was the Champions League and the Premier League with an emphasis on the Premier League a competition Liverpool should have had a realistic shout at give their position, stature and finances at the time. He absolutely wrecked their Youth set up (its just about recovered now), spent a fortune and won them some minor trophies their board / fans didn't really regard as important at the time. They'd bite your hand off for them now but that is down to his and Benitez' legacy, they between them wrecked Liverpool as a major force.You said "he was far from a success with Liverpool". I was responding to that. Liverpool didn't regard him as a success, his brief was the League and the Champions League, he failed in both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Just because he was sacked doesn't mean he wasn't successful. Loads of managers have been successful but still sacked at some point. Ancelotti is one of many that springs to mind. Wouldn't surprise me if you thought he wasn't successful either though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2011 Just because he was sacked doesn't mean he wasn't successful. Loads of managers have been successful but still sacked at some point. Ancelotti is one of many that springs to mind. Wouldn't surprise me if you thought he wasn't successful either though. Maybe you need to understand, those trophies for Liverpool did not represent success. They were side shows. They weren't the reason he was employed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Just because he was sacked doesn't mean he wasn't successful. Loads of managers have been successful but still sacked at some point. Ancelotti is one of many that springs to mind. Wouldn't surprise me if you thought he wasn't successful either though. Maybe you need to understand, those trophies for Liverpool did not represent success. They were side shows. They weren't the reason he was employedI guess it really depends on your definition of success then. Let's just say Randy hired McLeish to finish top 10 and McLeish indeed achieved that, but nothing more - would that make McLeish a success here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=32718.0 Plenty of praise for Houllier there from the Liverpool fans. Including this post... Really like the man and he's very much in my good books for all his efforts at Liverpool and he built a great team of coaches at the club. Fantastic manager Aston Villa will get. It'll be good to welcome him back to Anfield when he returns with Villa. Most Liverpool fans have a high opinion of him and what he did there. There are those who said he went downhill after the heart problems but then there are many who give him the credit for the Champions League win. There is nothing substantial to suggest Houllier is a myth or a failure. And certainly nothing substantial to suggest Mcleish is a better manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAndLoyal Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Houllier or McLeish? That's like asking your son or daughter whether they want a three-wheeler metro or a second-hand Skoda for their birthday? Both are uninspiring and shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Houllier or McLeish? That's like asking your son or daughter whether they want a three-wheeler metro or a second-hand Skoda for their birthday? Both are uninspiring and shite. ^^^^Exactly! There were better managers available at the time and there are still some available now for instance Hughes and Flores. Both of these are much better managers than either GH or AM. Trouble is our Board are to nice (or stupid) to consider that a change will benefit the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdubber Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Nothing against a second hand skoda. Reliable and no frills attatched..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm sorry, say what you may, but our style of play was immensely better, and improving still under Houllier and I feel If they had gotten the chance to stay on the players would have eventually accepted the training. We would have eventually gotten in some very good players from overseas and eventually the defence may have been sorted. Ideally we would have needed a young cross between Houllier, Mcleish and perhaps MON. Closest one might have been Martinez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The problem with houllier is that while he was here and now he's not it was always 'if' there was never actually anything concrete to prove anything. Mcleish isn't looking great but houllier leaving gave me a feeling of pure joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It'll be good to welcome him back to Anfield when he returns with Villa.Well that bit turned out to be prophetic, didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Under Houllier we got 33 points in 28 games. This equates to about 45 points a season. Under McLeish's first 5 games we've got 7 points which at the moment equates to 52 points a season. Houllier managed this with Kyle Walker, Reo-Coker, Stewart Downing, Ashley Young and Luke Young. All these would walk into McLeish's team. Only Shay Given would have got into Houllier's team last season. McLeish's aim this season is lower than Houllier's last year. So were playing worse and getting better results ATM, McLeish is still streets ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Good to see GED is on the mend "I think they'll finish in the top four. I believe in them," he added. "Don't forget Steven Gerrard is not playing and, when he comes back, he'll make a difference." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts