The Next Villa Manager Part 3

[ChrisNichollsToe]

Mysteryman:

Having made a statement of it won't be McCleish based on what I was told Sunday night from what yes not my normal source but was told to bank on it that same source then telling me there might be something in it . I still am no clearer to who it could be totally confusing info and discounting all of it until I hear otherwise . Re McCleish was aware he was interested in Villa job and had heard the rumours that he may resign but more to do with his relationship with Blues absoultely nothing to do with Villa job .

Theres been issues between Mcliesh and the triads for a while. Pannus language in the press, shows how much strain on the relationship there has been, and what a completely classless bunch of Dalmation eating spivs they really are.

Even the decision to keep Mcleish on for next season, contained a vieled threat.

Mcleish was always going to quit in my opinion, and in that opinion, he has not quit because of us being managerless.

My concern is that we could actually be interested in him!!

Are we?

I think what Colin Tatum will say on the subject will be telling.

There is another problem on the horizon. IF we are interested, how long would it take to sort out?

Blues wont play ball. They could easily put him out on gardening leave like they did with Bruce. In the meantime, the transfer window will get shorter, and pre season approaches, and tempers on both sides of the City, become more strained.

The more i think about it, the more stupid it sounds.

I just hope to god, Randy is not as stupid has that, or we really do have a problem.

[stewiek2]

If the rumour is true that McLeish is to sue the noses over constructive dismissal, then I think we can rule him out. Can't see him risking his case being buggered by him taking another job, the noses lawyers would throw all sorts of shit at him.

[Didiersix]

As far as I am aware, McLeish's resignation had nothing to do with Villa. He has had a couple of fall outs with the board over money. The timing was sheer coincidence.

This came from one of McLeish's best friends.

[JulieB]

Methinks they'll be a sudden surge in cider sales in parts of Brum -

Divine retribution for all the stick you've given out on here Rob!!

GINGER IMPLOSION!!

[Folski]

Can we just like put a load of names into a hat and pull out one and appoint that man. Just sick of the wait!

[adefergi]

i know for sure some of you will say i´m talking out my arse, but it´s far better to be positive than all this worrying and shit that´s going on....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it´s really startting to happen now.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/80302,sport,football,unhappy-fans-could-end-arsene-wengers-reign-warns-arsenal-chief-gazidis

http://betting.betfair.com/football/premiership/premier-league-betting-arsenal-fans-to-dictate-wengers-fut-140611.html

[Eames]

Can somebody point me in the right direction of this facebook email the General allegedly sent? What page is it on?

This was it, taken from H&V but the original post itself has been removed from the alleged FB page:

"Richard, you know I am not going to tell you anything. I will say that the uproar over McLeish is absolutely uncalled for....he certainly has proved he can manage in the big leagues...just imagine what he could do if he was with an owner who supported him."

"First off, NO ONE is confirming a rumor...I am just stating a belief. You all cling to the fact that he has seen his lads relegated twice...well, the first time he was not with the Club long enough to make much of a difference. Secondly, ...look at the owners he has worked for and their support of him monetarily. Then look at Randy and what he provides to his Managers. Third, look at his record with other Clubs...as a Manager and player. Check with Sir Alex and ask him about the man...you will get an entirely different sense. All I am saying is that the fact that he managed BCFC should not be the driving factor. Those fans who X the man out because he managed our biggest rival just seem to miss the point. YES, Randy and the Board understand the feeliings of the Fans...we are neither deaf nor blind. At the same time, whether it would be this man or any other, we need to do what we think is right for the Club. NO action is taken without HUGE input from many knowledgeable people. Honest to goodness, if a single man can cause all the fans to abandon ship, that is a sad state of affairs. What you are basically saying is, "Randy, let us pick the Manager...we know more than you, those who are advising you, those who are in the game and know the individuals, those who make a living recommending managers and players, etc. etc" Sorry, that just doesn't seem right to me. Again, I am not confirming the rumor...just simply stating my feelings...as a FAN!!!!!!!!"

CAUTION

post from an "alleged" General Krulak FB page (there are 2, you can only "Like" one of them. The other I assumed was a fake.

The alleged post on the alleged page has now been removed? Surely the actual General would stand by what he has written. Doesn't seem the type to back down does he?

I called it last night and I'll call it again. The above post is bullshit.

[Gingerlad]

It was removed by the person who wrote on the wall in the first place, Jon Fear has vouched for it being a genuine fb for the general too.

[Ulver]

Normally, I can't stand Moxley and anything he writes. But i'm finding little to argue about here

McLeish to amateur Villa? You couldn't make it up, could you...

By Neil Moxley

I’m going to borrow a phrase from my esteemed colleague, Richard Littlejohn, to introduce the theme of this week's column.

Aston Villa’s managerial situation… you couldn’t make it up, could you?

It’s now 55 days and counting since Gerard Houllier suffered his heart scare.

And, if anything, the club is now in a bigger mess than when the former France boss was admitted to hospital.

I’m struggling to think of a more haphazard, fragmented and amateurish managerial appointment process.

It’s has been handled appallingly.

Heart problems: Gerard Houllier could not continue as Aston Villa manager

Heart problems: Gerard Houllier could not continue as Aston Villa manager

Right from the moment that the prognosis was delivered on Houllier’s problems, the writing was on the wall that a new manager would be on his way.

And now we are here. Two sets of supporters in Birmingham at each others’ throats and Villa fans in open revolt over the imminent arrival of Alex McLeish.

Haphazard: Randy Lerner has not handled the appointment process well

Haphazard: Randy Lerner has not handled the appointment process well

It didn’t have to come to this.

I don’t see Fulham’s supporters out on the streets of SW6 following Mark Hughes’ exit.

Never mind 48 days, their decision-makers needed about 48 hours to bag their man.

I have applauded Villa owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner plenty of times in this column.

I admire their respect for the club’s values and traditions. I think the re-building of the Holte pub was a grand gesture. The gold-leaf mosaic on the back of the Holte End a nice touch. Villa’s corporate entertaining? Excellent.

But they have tarnished this good work by their actions over the past week.

Where are the strong, clear lines of thought?

Let’s take it back a few stages, right back to April when news seeped out that Houllier had been admitted to hospital.

Within 48 hours of that happening, inquisitive hacks had been given the prognosis and asked a couple of friendly medics what it meant.

Answer?

It was clear to us that at the age of 63, Houllier would be best advised to steer away from employment, let alone a high-pressure job such as management in the Barclays Premier League.

That being the case, I think it is fair to assume that Lerner and Faulkner would have had an idea of what should happen next - irrespective of the fact that Houllier should have been binned after the home game against Sunderland.

Lerner has a duty of care to both his employee and the football club and, as such, had to terminate Houllier’s employment.

Quasi-parrot: Gary McAllister was adamant Gerard Houllier would return

Quasi-parrot: Gary McAllister was adamant Gerard Houllier would return

Fairly simple, you might think.

Oh no. We are treated to the unedifying example of Gary McAllister re-inforcing Houllier’s position by trotting out: ‘Gerard will be back,’ in quasi-parrot fashion, flagrantly ignoring the medical evidence in front of him. (And us.)

Villa’s dynamic duo - still wrestling with Martin O’Neill - decide that issue is far more important than the here and now. So they concentrate their efforts on settling with the Irishman, rather than sorting out Houllier.

(Personally, I’d have postponed O’Neill. He would have had to wait for his day.)

But here comes the tricky part. Instead of having a friendly chat with Mr Houllier - or an unfriendly one, come to that - and telling him that due to a duty of care to the club, his employment would have to be terminated, Villa make two major mistakes.

And their whole world comes crashing down around them.

First, they don’t have the above talk. If they did and it became mired in legality as Houllier is protected by a nonsensically-large pay-off clause, then they would have another battle on their hands. (The Frenchman would have settled eventually, he wouldn’t have wanted to go through all the strife of that, believe me.)

Secondly, why didn’t Villa draw up a shortlist for the vacant job in the meantime and carry out their due diligence on the quiet?

Why is it that Fulham were able to line up Martin Jol effectively within 48 hours?

Villa have had the best part of two months - and still they fumble about like a teenager groping in the dark for a bra-strap.

Just to take you through the events of the last seven days…it’s painful, but bear with me because it underlines the magnitude of the errors.

Swift action: Fulham moved quickly to appoint Martin Jol

Swift action: Fulham moved quickly to appoint Martin Jol

We’ve seen Villa distancing themselves from the outstanding candidate by a country mile - Mark Hughes - because, we are told, of some personal relationship that Lerner has with Mohamed Al Fayed.

Then, they miss out on another name on the shortlist - Jol - because, presumably, of chronic indecision. David Moyes doesn’t want to come, either, apparently because he can read the signs from Merseyside that he is better-placed staying put.

Next, they offer Steve McClaren an interview - then refuse to carry through with it because of adverse criticism on web-site message boards.

Third, they write to Wigan and ask for permission to speak to Roberto Martinez, who turns them down.

(Since when has the manager of Wigan Athletic turned down the chance to be Aston Villa’s next boss? Incredible.)

Next, we understand that Alex McLeish has resigned three miles away at St Andrew’s, initiating the mother of all supporter backlashes.

Snub: Roberto Martinez turned the job down to stay at Wigan

Snub: Roberto Martinez turned the job down to stay at Wigan

Notwithstanding that, somehow Birmingham City now have the high ground.

Let’s face it, if McLeish turns up at Villa Park, not only will it fly in the face of web-site message board anger (see Martinez above) but it also smashes their lofty moral position of ‘doing things by the book’

into one million tiny pieces.

So, Lerner won’t risk upsetting his big pal Al Fayed over Hughes but will risk the wrath of half of the Second City in England by chasing McLeish?

(I’m not even getting into an argument about whether McLeish is a fit manager for Aston Villa, although the evidence of two relegations in three seasons in the Barclays Premier League suggests he shouldn‘t be, irrespective of a Carling Cup triumph.)

Wigan owner Dave Whelan has heaped further scorn on those at B6 by admitting he was surprised that Villa didn’t go for Steve McClaren - as he would have - in the event of Martinez’s exit.

And all the while in the background, Mark Hughes is jumping up and down, screaming, ‘Take me, take me.’

Ignored: Villa have not approached Mark Hughes

Ignored: Villa have not approached Mark Hughes

I ask again: Why not?

It’s a sorry mess. And I have to say it’s been symptomatic of everything that has gone wrong with the football side since H.D. Ellis and Steve Stride relinquished control.

Off the field, the corporate areas are fantastic.

But it’s on the field where Villa are struggling.

Too much money has been wasted by too many bad choices. Player contracts, in particular, are way in excess of what they should be.

You know, the media who enquired were told that the reason why a couple of chief executives left the club (Michael Cunnah, Richard Fitzgerald) was because Lerner knew how to run a sporting organisation.

That may be true as far as Cleveland Browns are concerned.

But don’t try to tell me he couldn’t have had better value for his £200m investment. I’m sorry, I don’t believe it.

Dividing the city: Alex McLeish has angered both Villa and Birmingham City fans

Dividing the city: Alex McLeish has angered both Villa and Birmingham City fans

No matter how this turns out from now on, it looks like a botch job.

As for McLeish, Villa’s owners have put themselves in a needlessly difficult position and a rightly coming under increasing criticism for the thoroughly unprofessional manner in which this whole episode has been handled.

Charles Krulak’s role within the organisation seems to be the guardian of the message boards.

Here’s one for you Charles: Randy and Paul have messed up - massive time.

Given the length of time they have had to sort out the managerial situation, the amount of money that’s been thrown at it and the inherent quality of a club like Aston Villa, there is only one question remaining.

Can the mess get any worse?

I sincerely hope not.

But then, given the events of the past few days, I’m not holding my breath.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2003376/The-Midlander-Aston-Villa-amateur-appointment-process.html#ixzz1PFRD8OjP

[JulieB]

As far as I am aware, McLeish's resignation had nothing to do with Villa. He has had a couple of fall outs with the board over money. The timing was sheer coincidence.

This came from one of McLeish's best friends.

The rumour is he McCleish found out that Pannu was trying to flog half the squad behind his back without even being consulted. A bit like what happened at Newcastle when Keegan walked.

[Eames]

It was removed by the person who wrote on the wall in the first place, Jon Fear has vouched for it being a genuine fb for the general too.

How is there any way that we can possibly know that?

Also - isn't Jon Fear a know as a self-publicising clearing in the woods?

[Villafied]

So, finally been let loose on this hallowed forum,

Hello World.

After reading most of this thread, not in one sitting.

The only things I'm absolutely sure of are:

that I'm super glad Peter Panun isn't in anyway involved with our club. What a numpty.

and that with the little bit of info out there, its very easy to jump to the conclusions some of you have. until AM is ITSOTP, we really are just guessing.

[Danwichmann]

Football coach and former star player Ruud Gullit has been hit with an angry ultimatum by the team he coaches: Win on Tuesday or you lose your job.

The Dutchman had an enthusiastic welcome when he arrived to coach Chechen team Terek Grozny in February.

But the club now says Gullit is distracted by "bars and discos" and has not justified its hopes.

It says he must "bring back three points" from Tuesday's game against Ankar Perm or face dismissal.

Terek Grozny finished 12th in the 16-team Russian Premier League in 2010.

Gullit was signed with the target of qualifying for European competition by 2012.

But after Gullit's 12-match tenure the team is now languishing in 14th place.

Fearsome

The club's president is the Chechen leader, Ramzan Kadyrov, who even played for the team during a celebrity match in March.

He has a fearsome reputation, as Ruud Gullit has been finding out, says the BBC's sports news reporter Alex Capstick.

Continue reading the main story

Analysis

Alex Capstick

BBC Sport reporter

Terek Grozny were formed in 1958 but vanished in the 1990s when Chechnya became a war zone. They did not play again until 2001.

Ruud Gullit was a surprise choice when he was hired to manage the club. The president has high expectations for his club, and last month hosted an exhibition match which featured, among others, Diego Maradona and Luis Figo.

But he is clearly not afraid to criticise his employees in public, no matter how high their profile.

Mr Kadyrov is "extremely dissatisfied" with Gullit's performance, the club said in the harshly worded statement in Russian on its website.

Terek is a team that "has never looked so hopeless" and Gullit refuses to accept any of the blame, it says.

"Considering all this, Ramzan Kadyrov is presenting Ruud Gullit with the task of bringing back three points from Perm.

"In the event of the opposite outcome, Gullit will be dismissed from the position of head coach."

Gullit, a former World Player of the Year and one of the most successful players in the history of Dutch football, was signed to an 18-month contract when he joined Terek.

Moscow had invested significant political hopes in the Chechen team's sporting success, in an attempt to move forward after two decades of ruinous conflict with the breakaway region.

Gullit about to be sacked

So, given the timing it can't be coincidence and he's clearly nailed on to be the next Villa manager.

Or at least the press will make that seem the case before long.

[Shillzz]

Lerner back in the country according to Aston Villa View, IanRobo I believe.

[GarryBarry]

I reckon Pingu is using all of this as a great opportunity to pre-empt McCleish's constructive dismissal claim. The head of League Managers Association on Sky today was saying McCleish had problems with the Sty's board for the past two weeks and they had been aware.

Now, this doesn't mean that our board aren't interested in speaking to him/sounding him out about the job especially if he expressed an interest - hence the email in reply to the Sty. And GK's reply to what he thought was personal discussion (rather than message board) which essentially said 'we'll speak to who we want and stop lecturing us on who we should and shouldn't consider'

And unfortuantely the silence to the media is allowing them to build it up into a 'tug of war' for the manager as if he is going to be offered the job.

My only worries are that a) it seems the number of option are reducing and this shitstorm around our appinting a manager does nothing for our reputation and our attempts to attracdt people like Rijkaard.

KEEP CALM, CARRY ON

[villadude]

Can somebody point me in the right direction of this facebook email the General allegedly sent? What page is it on?

This was it, taken from H&V but the original post itself has been removed from the alleged FB page:

"Richard, you know I am not going to tell you anything. I will say that the uproar over McLeish is absolutely uncalled for....he certainly has proved he can manage in the big leagues...just imagine what he could do if he was with an owner who supported him."

"First off, NO ONE is confirming a rumor...I am just stating a belief. You all cling to the fact that he has seen his lads relegated twice...well, the first time he was not with the Club long enough to make much of a difference. Secondly, ...look at the owners he has worked for and their support of him monetarily. Then look at Randy and what he provides to his Managers. Third, look at his record with other Clubs...as a Manager and player. Check with Sir Alex and ask him about the man...you will get an entirely different sense. All I am saying is that the fact that he managed BCFC should not be the driving factor. Those fans who X the man out because he managed our biggest rival just seem to miss the point. YES, Randy and the Board understand the feeliings of the Fans...we are neither deaf nor blind. At the same time, whether it would be this man or any other, we need to do what we think is right for the Club. NO action is taken without HUGE input from many knowledgeable people. Honest to goodness, if a single man can cause all the fans to abandon ship, that is a sad state of affairs. What you are basically saying is, "Randy, let us pick the Manager...we know more than you, those who are advising you, those who are in the game and know the individuals, those who make a living recommending managers and players, etc. etc" Sorry, that just doesn't seem right to me. Again, I am not confirming the rumor...just simply stating my feelings...as a FAN!!!!!!!!"

Nice one, interesting read that..

[makouns_grin]

Neil Moxley is annoyed that he is not being given information.

Simple.

[Cjamesk]

[West]

I think that clearly is the General's comment, but I think his response is as a result of anger and disappointment with our fans.

McLaren's name got put around and received huge uproar from forum posters.

A young, promising manager like Martinez was revealed to be a candidate. Yet the reaction was of 'we are the mighty Aston Villa, how dare you even consider appointing a manager who just managed to save his team from relegation.'

Now more uproar with McLeish.

Unfortunately the rise of the internet and social network sites means that keyboard warriors now believe they can actually influence matters in a football club.

[rjw63]

Also - isn't Jon Fear a know as a self-publicising clearing in the woods?

You are obviously getting your website editors confused