DelboyVilla Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 DelboyVilla wrote: Quote: This would send the French-haters on here into meltdown. An Englishman is born with a French hating gene you know!!! It a law of nature! Not this Englishman. Vive l'entente. Traitor!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 31, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2011 The sooner people take full measure of our current position and the way the club is currently perceived outside of our own hopes and expectations, the better prepared you will be to evaluate whatever appointment is ultimately made and appropriately temper what you think the short- and long-term goals should be for any new manager. The fact is that anyone who comes in who delivers a half-reasonable mid-table finish and any domestic trophy will automatically become our most successful manager for over fifteen years - which is a sobering thought. I'm not being dismissive of our history, stature or fanbase - we still have much to offer - but we are currently no more than perhaps the seventh most attractive club in the league for new managers or players to consider. The relative success of Martin O'Neill's tenure amply demonstrated how difficult it is to move beyond that so the prospect of Champions League glory shouldn't even figure in anyone's reckoning right now. Add to that the stark realisation of the past year at how quickly any progress made can quickly evaporate with the wrong appointment and I think it's obvious that now is a time for a little conservatism in our key choices. That may not generate a great deal of excitement - and certainly not the hysteria that greeted O'Neill's arrival - but it may just provide the kind of foundation from which we can compete in a sustained fashion and maybe even go further.Well said, that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Didn't some people want fat sam over Houllier? Yes, at that time. MON leaving 5 days before the start of the season meant that the incoming manager had no chance to bring players in but had to run 'as is' and simply get the best out of the current squad. I thought Sam could do this and avoid a relegation battle. I still believe he would have done alright for us possibly finishing around the same place as we did but with less scares. I only ever wanted him on a temporary one year contract though with a view to replacing him around now anyhow. I never thought he was the future of Villa but would have been a decent caretaker manager for a season under those particular circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Good post Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hughes please, showed he's got what it takes at fulham. Wales, Blackburn, Man City, Fulham. No failure there imv No thanks... No failures but not much to shout about either. Excellent at wales and blackburn, shafted at city when he could have got them 4th. First season back and he has a fine season with fulham. He's a manager on the up in my opinion. I can't see him not getting strong backing from fans if appointed. I'd be cautious about Moyes, been at one club for so long hard to know I'd he could match that if he came here. Hughes would be the better option in my opinion. Hughes is rubbish.. He paid waaaay over the odds for Lesscott, Bridge, Santa Cruz, SWP etc... He basically does what any run of mill Premiership manager could do.. Moyes is also just another run of the mill Premiership manager.. If any of those get appointed, its basically Villa throwing in the towel over EVER being champions again..Neither have the brains to build the club into something special. We need a manager with vision into the future that will take the club forward...Not a manager that just thinks of boosting his own CV... Rijkaard would come in a build the club and would also give us great hope of becoming champions again. I would expect a similar goal from Deschamps too.These would build throughout! Ancelotti and Benitez are another 2 managers that will be no good for us. Because they wont build depth, it will be an half decent 1st team squad only.. But no future.. You can't judge those transfer fees as any kind of reflection of the valuation Hughes' may or may not have placed on those players - Man City pay over the odds by default due to their widely acknowledged wealth. What you can judge him on is his overall transfer record and the fact remains that though the likes of Bridge, Wright-Phillips, Santa Cruz, Bellamy etc. all drifted out of first team plans rather quickly when he departed, Hughes built the core of the side that has since gone on to finish third in the league and win the FA Cup - Kompany (for a bargain £6m!), Lescott (who for all of his first season inconsistency with them has gone on to form a very solid partnership with Kompany in Kolo Toure's absence), Barry, De Jong and Tevez. Of that group of players, none would have been unequivocally out of Villa's reach at the time that they moved - other than Tevez - if not for the game-changing amount of money the Abu Dhabi consortium were prepared to throw at the selling clubs in question. As I've said before, I think Hughes would be perfectly fine and represents a sensible option. What people are hoping for when they decry such suggestions (along with Moyes) is simply unrealistic. The kind of appointment you're alluding to - the kind that can essentially build a dynasty that can take us beyond fifth or sixth place to the Champions League - is one that I don't believe is remotely feasible at present. We have slipped from the level that we as supporters like to think should be seen as the bare minimum of achievements (top six) and until we get back there we are not going to look like a club that can fulfil the ambitions of a manager seeking a job that will put him on the biggest stage. There is nothing in the board's statements or actions - recently or otherwise - that would indicate that playing at that level is even in their thinking at the moment. Even if the likes of Rijkaard or Deschamps were potential candidates, I also don't see how they could possibly offer any kind of confidence that they would be committed to the long-haul, much less an understanding of the club they will be charge of any better than Houllier, or would even get to immediate grips with the rigours of a league that we cannot afford to lose any more ground in. A practical, if more modest, appointment will not be a sign of anybody throwing the towel in but rather recognition that stability is required - the kind of stability that comes with hiring the sort of manager who not only understands the club but appreciates the value and overall potential of the role, that understands that to get anywhere near to being in a position to genuinely challenge the top four again we must first re-establish ourselves among the chasing pack. The likes of Mark Hughes or David Moyes would be more than capable of doing this and that's why I think either would be suitable. I'm sure Benitez could too but the divisive nature of his personality marks him out as more of a risk. Whether any of them could take the club further I really couldn't say, but I know that those that are proven at that level won't be looking in our direction until we have at least put ourselves back on the immediate periphery - and it's going to take a lot of work to do that first. The sooner people take full measure of our current position and the way the club is currently perceived outside of our own hopes and expectations, the better prepared you will be to evaluate whatever appointment is ultimately made and appropriately temper what you think the short- and long-term goals should be for any new manager. The fact is that anyone who comes in who delivers a half-reasonable mid-table finish and any domestic trophy will automatically become our most successful manager for over fifteen years - which is a sobering thought. I'm not being dismissive of our history, stature or fanbase - we still have much to offer - but we are currently no more than perhaps the seventh most attractive club in the league for new managers or players to consider. The relative success of Martin O'Neill's tenure amply demonstrated how difficult it is to move beyond that so the prospect of Champions League glory shouldn't even figure in anyone's reckoning right now. Add to that the stark realisation of the past year at how quickly any progress made can quickly evaporate with the wrong appointment and I think it's obvious that now is a time for a little conservatism in our key choices. That may not generate a great deal of excitement - and certainly not the hysteria that greeted O'Neill's arrival - but it may just provide the kind of foundation from which we can compete in a sustained fashion and maybe even go further. We had the stability under Martin O'Neill, with 3 x 6th place finishes and a LC Final..Which in my opinion is similar to what Hughes and Moyes would also achieve. The leap up would have to come from a more knowledgable coach on the European stage...Look how Barca destroyed Man United. We need to move forward from this "Premiership experianced manager".. We need these continental tactics and know how to now be introduced, as to continue the good work started by Houllier.. Why go back? Hughes, Moyes, MON, Coyle, etc....They are all the same and will all just take Villa to "The best of the rest"...It is throwing in the towel with these managers.. Deschamps and Rijkaard can build from Youth up, to learn about movement, keeping possession, etc..They can also bring in the coaching staff and players to implement this..It can be another level for Aston Villa.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Firstly can we please not quote so much text. Secondly we know the club will only consider managers with premier league experience so what is the merit in taking about ones that don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Firstly can we please not quote so much text. Secondly we know the club will only consider managers with premier league experience so what is the merit in taking about ones that don't? What do the fans want? The club is said to care for its fans, GK uses this site to comunicate..He said he tells Lerner what we say. If the fans pull together and urge the club to appoint a coach like Deschamps..Maybe they will discuss it? :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasley14 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Good post Alec. Would you say, if getable, Ancelloti would fit into the category you are suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted May 31, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2011 Is it too much to hope for Ancelotti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 31, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2011 If the fans pull together and urge the club to appoint a coach like Deschamps..Maybe they will discuss it? :shock: (a) The fans? Agree on ANYTHING? Especially on appointing another French manager? ( The club? Do what the fans want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond_Joe_Quimby Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Firstly can we please not quote so much text. Secondly we know the club will only consider managers with premier league experience so what is the merit in taking about ones that don't? What do the fans want? The club is said to care for its fans, GK uses this site to comunicate..He said he tells Lerner what we say. If the fans pull together and urge the club to appoint a coach like Deschamps..Maybe they will discuss it? :shock: But that works on the basis that the average fan would want a Deschamps or similar ......im not sure they would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Firstly can we please not quote so much text. Secondly we know the club will only consider managers with premier league experience so what is the merit in taking about ones that don't? What do the fans want? The club is said to care for its fans, GK uses this site to comunicate..He said he tells Lerner what we say. If the fans pull together and urge the club to appoint a coach like Deschamps..Maybe they will discuss it? :shock: But you realise you are in the minority wanting one of those. Most of us realise that a foreign manager without premiership experience represents a risk, a risk we can't take. If we have a terrible start to the season we could lose what remains of our good players next summer. Hughes and Moyes have proven results in this league and would not need much time to adjust to the club. They are what is needed right now and that is exactly why the club has always said premiership experience is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 We had the stability under Martin O'Neill, with 3 x 6th place finishes and a LC Final..Which in my opinion is similar to what Hughes and Moyes would also achieve. The leap up would have to come from a more knowledgable coach on the European stage...Look how Barca destroyed Man United. We need to move forward from this "Premiership experianced manager".. We need these continental tactics and know how to now be introduced, as to continue the good work started by Houllier.. Why go back? Hughes, Moyes, MON, Coyle, etc....They are all the same and will all just take Villa to "The best of the rest"...It is throwing in the towel with these managers.. Deschamps and Rijkaard can build from Youth up, to learn about movement, keeping possession, etc..They can also bring in the coaching staff and players to implement this..It can be another level for Aston Villa.. Except another level for Villa at the moment is the best of the rest. We are not close to being that at the moment. How do you expect managers with the mentality and ambition you describe to see Villa as offering that kind of platform when we're not even knocking on the door? My feeling is they wouldn't even consider it. I stand to be corrected if that isn't the case but I'm still not sure I'd be convinced that either would be able to thrive in our league anyway and though I appreciate where you are coming from - that we need to gamble on someone who isn't just going to reproduce the consolidation football of previous 'proven' Premier League managers if we are to be successful - it would be a big risk after the failed experiment of the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 We had the stability under Martin O'Neill, with 3 x 6th place finishes and a LC Final..Which in my opinion is similar to what Hughes and Moyes would also achieve. The leap up would have to come from a more knowledgable coach on the European stage...Look how Barca destroyed Man United. We need to move forward from this "Premiership experianced manager".. We need these continental tactics and know how to now be introduced, as to continue the good work started by Houllier.. Why go back? Hughes, Moyes, MON, Coyle, etc....They are all the same and will all just take Villa to "The best of the rest"...It is throwing in the towel with these managers.. Deschamps and Rijkaard can build from Youth up, to learn about movement, keeping possession, etc..They can also bring in the coaching staff and players to implement this..It can be another level for Aston Villa.. Except another level for Villa at the moment is the best of the rest. We are not close to being that at the moment. How do you expect managers with the mentality and ambition you describe to see Villa as offering that kind of platform when we're not even knocking on the door? My feeling is they wouldn't even consider it. I stand to be corrected if that isn't the case but I'm still not sure I'd be convinced that either would be able to thrive in our league anyway and though I appreciate where you are coming from - that we need to gamble on someone who isn't just going to reproduce the consolidation football of previous 'proven' Premier League managers if we are to be successful - it would be a big risk after the failed experiment of the last year. Oh come-on mate...We are knocking on the door...Its what we've done for 30 bloody years. Look how quick we got to 9th with a season plagued with injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 We are not even close to knocking on the door, you're delusional mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Premiership experience + continental experience + international experience = Steve McLaren. Dear God, NO!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Probably. oh shit. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I hope Randy is reading the poll results of this thread now. There can only be one... Moyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Sky Sports webby saying we're dismissing Houllier stepping down this week whereas BBC saying he will be. I wish the club would just come out and put us out our misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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