Awol Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 The whole 'debate' has been an embarrassment for politics in this country. I think this current crop of politicians is as vapid as any in history Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddybloke Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The no vote campaign is a joke, its based on lies and treats people like idiots. Some of the stuff that is spouted is just absolutely pathetic. For the villa badge, 38% of people wanted AVFC on the badge, 30 % wanted "Aston Villa FC" and then something like 28% wanted "Aston Villa", so the majority of people wanted Aston Villa on the badge in some form but instead, with less than half the votes AVFC won! 62% of people didnt want to have AVFC on the badge. It really annoyed me at the time. Im definitely voting for AV, its a no brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Think AV is a bit shit..its not ideal ....but first past the post system is shit and needs reforming. I was actually originally against AV but the No campaign has actually been so frankly shit and cynical it has actually made me change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIW Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 uuuuuuuuucking hell. What was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The no vote campaign is a joke, its based on lies and treats people like idiots. Some of the stuff that is spouted is just absolutely pathetic. For the villa badge, 38% of people wanted AVFC on the badge, 30 % wanted "Aston Villa FC" and then something like 28% wanted "Aston Villa", so the majority of people wanted Aston Villa on the badge in some form but instead, with less than half the votes AVFC won! 62% of people didnt want to have AVFC on the badge. It really annoyed me at the time. Im definitely voting for AV, its a no brainer for me. I think the other problem is that the Yes campaign arn't courting the stupid vote as aggressively. How hard is it to explain in clear points why it is better and why politics is not a horse race so those FPTP comparisons are not relevant. Instead we get long waffling speeches by Vince Cable which are only preaching to the converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddybloke Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The no vote campaign is a joke, its based on lies and treats people like idiots. Some of the stuff that is spouted is just absolutely pathetic. For the villa badge, 38% of people wanted AVFC on the badge, 30 % wanted "Aston Villa FC" and then something like 28% wanted "Aston Villa", so the majority of people wanted Aston Villa on the badge in some form but instead, with less than half the votes AVFC won! 62% of people didnt want to have AVFC on the badge. It really annoyed me at the time. Im definitely voting for AV, its a no brainer for me. I think the other problem is that the Yes campaign arn't courting the stupid vote as aggressively. How hard is it to explain in clear points why it is better and why politics is not a horse race so those FPTP comparisons are not relevant. Instead we get long waffling speeches by Vince Cable which are only preaching to the converted. True. The fact that the current system is called "first past the post" annoys me because they rarely reach the post (50%), infact it's like a 100 meter runner only getting about 70 meters and the rest of the runners dont make it as far, thus the runner that gets 70 meters wins. Fairly sure there would be uproar if this happened at any point in any sort of race. AV would kill off the BNP too, seems like this is something that most are missing too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 2, 2011 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2011 Both AV and FPTP are first past the post systems. Its just that one has a fixed post and the other does not. It could also be like a shot putter getting another go because the bloke in the lead hasn't thrown it far enough, even though he's in the lead, gwan, have another go, just see if you can beat him. Fairly sure there'd be uproar in the event of that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 All these sporting event comparisons are stupid and meaningless because politics is not a sport. The idea is to pick a government who best represents the people as a whole. AV does that better then FPTP. It is nothing to do with shot puts or 100m races or any of that nonsense. I don't see why the Yes campaign can't get that message across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 2, 2011 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't see why the Yes campaign can't get that message across. Partially one suspects its because few of them actually really want AV. EDIT: And I was kinda taking the piss with the shot putt thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Saw that on mr Fry's twitter the other day. THATS how the official campaign should have been done. I'll be voting yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 3, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3, 2011 The Yes campaign have an ad that basically is exactly the same as that Coffee v Beer picture, fronted by Dan Snow. It's the kind of thing they should have chucked to the forefront of the campaign, rather than push it out at the end. Though I guess the idea is the heavy hitter is at the forefront of peoples minds instantly. Had another 'NO' leaflet the other day, delivered with a campaign thing for the Tory hopeful (good luck love, you'll need it round here). Heavy on the 'But only bloody Papua New Guinea are happy with it, and they're shit!'-esque argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 One person, one vote and the individual with the most votes wins. That isn't the problem imo. The problem with democracy in the UK isn't the voting system, it is that once an MP gets elected they represent party rather than constituency interests. AV won't change that, but the right to recall your MP twinned with open primary elections would. I'm all for change that is good but not change for its own sake. Even Clegg said he didn't favour AV before the last election and his conversion since then is about saving his own skin by delivering something, not about delivering the right thing, or indeed something he actually believes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 latest polls seem to suggest common sense will prevail and it will be a NO to AV does anyone think a No vote could bring down Clegg and will it be seen as a reflection of a lack of support for Ed who is the highest profile "Yes" campaigner alternatively could a Yes to AV bring down Cameron? Also if the Libs get spanked in the local elections could Clegg be under threat as leader of his own party ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 4, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 4, 2011 I think a poll on what people think the skys colour is on a clear day would be as shocking as that one Tony I don't think the inevitable No vote will change anything. Clegg might get some flack but the Liberals haven't got the balls to topple him just yet, they'll worry it'll threaten their last lingering taste of power. They'll dump him when they're down and out, and they'll appoint someone who is what they perceive to appeal to the left end of the party. I also think that suggesting the results of this referendum would seriously affect or represent a waivering support for any leader probably gives the importance of this subject to a great many members of the public rather too much credit. The common man who doesn't really care about politics will vote against it because of the sterling work the No campaign has done to put them off (or they just don't like the sound of the change), and they'll continue to support and vote the party they did before. Labour supporters voting No will vote for Labour in the next election, and so on. The level of... caring in the populace for this election is pathetic in my experience. Almost no-one our family knows knows a)how to vote and whether they care enough at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 latest polls seem to suggest common sense will prevail and it will be a NO to AV does anyone think a No vote could bring down Clegg and will it be seen as a reflection of a lack of support for Ed who is the highest profile "Yes" campaigner alternatively could a Yes to AV bring down Cameron? Also if the Libs get spanked in the local elections could Clegg be under threat as leader of his own party ? Firstly it's not common sense and secondly I can't see the logic re the non-PM leaders. Only Cameron and his party are totally behind one (flawed) policy of FPTP. Labour have people in both camps and that is a very healthy sign, IMO, because it shows that they are not just blindly following party politics. The combining of the referendum and the council votes was purposely done to try and salvage some wins for the Tory party. Clegg's LibDem's will take one hell of a kicking and I would not be surprised to see a steady flow of traditional LibDem's leaving to either a separate party or maybe even setting up a "new"LibDem party. Clegg is showing all the signs of someone who has realised he has backed the wrong horse with his sell out to the Tory party. As for Cameron, a Gvmt that did not win the election but was the largest party, albeit as a minority. He should be riding high in the polls, especially with Clegg taking the kickings, so it will be interesting how people react to this. For Milliband, he really still has to do nothing at the moment because of the stitch up that Clegg and Cameron have made over fixed term parliaments and the constant gaffes and unpopular idealogical policies they are hitting the country with. But at the end of the day we have the silliness of a party political led council elections, which they should never be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 The problem with democracy in the UK isn't the voting system It is. Well, it's one of them anyway .... undemocratic method of electing MP's FTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 latest polls seem to suggest common sense will prevail and it will be a NO to AV Yet you yourself advocate PR? A good stance, but one wholly unexpected from a Tory. You'll struggle to find many in your party who would agree with you Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 The problem with democracy in the UK isn't the voting system It is. Well, it's one of them anyway .... undemocratic method of electing MP's FTL. Despite Huhne's statement to the contrary, AV will not make MP's more accountable. Any changes that fail to achieve that aim are, imo, cosmetic at best. Besides, one man one vote is very democratic. I think some peoples issue is they may live in a constituency where the party they support has negligible following. Well PR would change that clearly, but AV? Unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts