Dale Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 :-) - I just find it amusing that both Cameron and Clegg, who are supposedly on differing sides telling lies to try and win the battle and then have to sit next to each other drinking Pimms on the lawns of Number 10 :-)Indeed. Some of the Tory local campaign material that has come through our door has been pretty virulently anti-Clegg/LibDems. SAme here with the Lib Dem's about the Tories We (well most of my local party) do still genuinely hate the Tories though... What I hope AV may do is see the development of a genuine social liberal party. That is what I am (and the majority of Lib Dems - not the leadership_, just economic buggers tainting my once good name. I have put out some leaflets on behalf of a local councillor I don't think I have mentioned the Tories or Labour for that matter. I will be on the next leaflet, but it will remain local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Couldn't Gordon Browne have stayed PM if the Lib Dems went into government with Labour instead of the Torys? Carmeron talking spin with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 In theory yes, minority government would have failed (particularly when built on a combination of LD/Lab/Nationalists etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 We (well most of my local party) do still genuinely hate the Tories though... What I hope AV may do is see the development of a genuine social liberal party. That is what I am (and the majority of Lib Dems - not the leadership_, just economic buggers tainting my once good name. Dale - fair play to you sir. Slightly off topic, but if things went against Clegg at the vote, do you think there would be a breakaway party formed that basically abandoned those who have now taken up the role of Tory-lite, i.e. Clegg? Is this now a potential vote not on the subject but on the people and the parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm not sure to be honest, I struggling to see where the leadership would come from... But its not all sunshine and roses, that is for sure... If Clegg were to start talking about electoral pacts however, I think that would definitely cause a breakaway. The coalition looks a lot better on paper than in play, something we have in common with Villa this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 20, 2011 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2011 We (well most of my local party) do still genuinely hate the Tories though... What I hope AV may do is see the development of a genuine social liberal party. That is what I am (and the majority of Lib Dems - not the leadership_, just economic buggers tainting my once good name. Dale - fair play to you sir. Slightly off topic, but if things went against Clegg at the vote, do you think there would be a breakaway party formed that basically abandoned those who have now taken up the role of Tory-lite, i.e. Clegg? Is this now a potential vote not on the subject but on the people and the parties? I'm not sure to be honest, I struggling to see where the leadership would come from... But its not all sunshine and roses, that is for sure... If Clegg were to start talking about electoral pacts however, I think that would definitely cause a breakaway.I feel sorry for rank-and-file LibDems like yourself Dale. As my daughter just said to me - your party was on the verge of a genuine breakthrough, and they have now lost the votes of an entire generation. Not to mention older Labour voters like me who were on the verge of switching. Not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yes, I do tend to agree with you Mike. Worked very hard down in Cornwall (partly to keep the Tories out), lost in two seats... Was absolutely gutting. For the moment I will take some of the smaller victories, hopefully we've stopped the NHS reforms from the grassroots (not the PP who were preparing to vote them through). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 There is two ways to look at the Lib Dems, they either compromised their principles to make a seedy politician's grab for power, or they offered the nation a chance by being a moderate brake on one of the big parties. After 30 years of steam roller, single party government, and in the biggest crisis of modern times, we needed that. They couldn't jump in with the crooked failures who put us in this situation, so they got together with the Tories. And history will probably record that their motives were a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I feel sorry for rank-and-file LibDems like yourself Dale. As my daughter just said to me - your party was on the verge of a genuine breakthrough, and they have now lost the votes of an entire generation. Not to mention older Labour voters like me who were on the verge of switching. Not now. Yes, you do struggle to see where their support is now going to come from. The yoof vote - nope - he's stitched them right up, especially the eductaed yoof vote which is where much of their support lay. Dissaffected Labour voters - no way sireee. You can't get in to bed with the tories and then hope to get that vote. Where else? Some Tory votes in constituences where labour are clearly first and lib dems second - perhaps - although that may already have happened anyway ... I think they're killing themsleves, and need to get out of this coalition sharpish after the AV vote goes against them. The most effective brake against a Tory govt is not acting in coalition to restrain them, it's to bring them down/to completely disable the govt .... However, would we then see another GE due to a minority Tory Govt struggling to get anything done? Do we want another GE so soon? Is Ed Miller Band ready for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think they're killing themsleves, and need to get out of this coalition sharpish after the AV vote goes against them. Seems to me this is exactly what Saint Vince of Retrospect is preparing the ground for. If AV fails to pass - as seems likely - I can see him resigning from the Cabinet and knifing Clegg, with the intention of ending the Coalition. Should AV get through I reckon he may do exactly the same thing anyway in the hope of forming a coalition with Labour after a new election. Either way I'm not sure the current situation will hold for long. Do we want another GE so soon? Is Ed Miller Band ready for that? IMO little Ed will get murdered in any snap GE campaign. He's got no policies and the Tories would force them to say exactly where they would cut should they win. Given that the tactic is opposing any specific cut articulated by the coalition, they'd then be skewered by their current rhetoric and end up looking fairly absurd. Also worth noting that the wheels have fallen off Balls' key policy of reducing the deficit more slowly - while citing America as the example to follow. S & P have just downgraded US credit worthiness and the only real debate now over there is whether to massively slash spending or really ramp up taxes. Either way Barry O' s proposing to reduce the deficit at a faster rate than current UK plans, which has left Balls and Labour hgh and dry. Despite the cuts it's entirely possible that the Tories could get back in with a clear FPTP majority if there was another GE this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 21, 2011 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hate to say it, but I agree with Awol. The LibDems are going to crash and burn very soon, and I can see Cameron getting a clear majority in a snap general election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 IMO little Ed will get murdered in any snap GE campaign. He's got no policies and the Tories would force them to say exactly where they would cut should they win. Given that the tactic is opposing any specific cut articulated by the coalition, they'd then be skewered by their current rhetoric and end up looking fairly absurd. Also worth noting that the wheels have fallen off Balls' key policy of reducing the deficit more slowly - while citing America as the example to follow. S & P have just downgraded US credit worthiness and the only real debate now over there is whether to massively slash spending or really ramp up taxes. Either way Barry O' s proposing to reduce the deficit at a faster rate than current UK plans, which has left Balls and Labour hgh and dry. Despite the cuts it's entirely possible that the Tories could get back in with a clear FPTP majority if there was another GE this year. Interesting that you have done a complete U turn Jon, when people often said of Cameron about having no policies you said it did not matter. Cameron will not be trusted on his promises as he has been seen to be a complete liar, or a politician. For the polls to show such a lead for Labour in such a short time is amazing considering the media bias that still oozes through the cess pit of reporting. Cameron has tried to be clever, and probably succeeded, in passing the blame to the LibDems and Clegg's willingness to embrace the Tory party (one he supported before ironically) has meant that Cameron can impose a large proportion of his idealogical attacks without taking the full extent of the blame. The UK is now back to two party politics, which is a shame as Clegg, and Cable have killed off what was a decent party. Cameron and Osborne supported by their backers, both UK and non-UK based are laughing as they continue to carry out long held Tory views on the public sector and especially on things like the NHS Lets have another election, because this Gvmt certainly is making a balls up of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Also worth noting that the wheels have fallen off Balls' key policy of reducing the deficit more slowly - while citing America as the example to follow. S & P have just downgraded US credit worthiness... I'm not sure why the utterings of a credit rating agency mean that the wheels have fallen off Balls's policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Also worth noting that the wheels have fallen off Balls' key policy of reducing the deficit more slowly - while citing America as the example to follow. S & P have just downgraded US credit worthiness... I'm not sure why the utterings of a credit rating agency mean that the wheels have fallen off Balls's policy. That in itself is merely an indicator. The wheels have fallen off because he has consistently lauded the US approach of totally ignoring their ballooning deficit, a policy which has now been completely rejected and reversed as they plan to cut faster than the UK is currently - 2% per year as opposed to 1.6%. That leaves Balls isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That leaves Balls isolated. and you don't want to isolate your balls, if you can help it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That leaves Balls isolated. and you don't want to isolate your balls, if you can help it!! Indeed. Also worth noting reference the credit ratings agencies that up to now they have unfairly skewed their outlook to protect the US. That one has now come out doing the opposite makes that view more significant, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 See Mandy has joined in on the debate If there’s not a No vote successfully obtained, the Tory party will never forgive David Cameron. It will put an instrument, a weapon, in the hands of his critics and detractors in the party and greatly destabilise him and might even cost him his leadership.What I’m saying to my party is think strategically. How is it best to collapse the coalition? good to see that Labour are campaigning on behalf of the public and not trying to use it for any political gain then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 See Mandy has joined in on the debate If there’s not a No vote successfully obtained, the Tory party will never forgive David Cameron. It will put an instrument, a weapon, in the hands of his critics and detractors in the party and greatly destabilise him and might even cost him his leadership.What I’m saying to my party is think strategically. How is it best to collapse the coalition? good to see that Labour are campaigning on behalf of the public and not trying to use it for any political gain then Damaging Green Dave would just be an added bonus, not the main reason to vote Yes. I think he's being quite clever here in trying to galvanise the Labour supporters to come out and vote Yes for a different reason other than purely AV being better/more democratic than FPTP. A clever political move IMO. Think Yes will still lose though, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 The whole 'debate' has been an embarrassment for politics in this country. I think this current crop of politicians is as vapid as any I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 See Mandy has joined in on the debate If there’s not a No vote successfully obtained, the Tory party will never forgive David Cameron. It will put an instrument, a weapon, in the hands of his critics and detractors in the party and greatly destabilise him and might even cost him his leadership.What I’m saying to my party is think strategically. How is it best to collapse the coalition? good to see that Labour are campaigning on behalf of the public and not trying to use it for any political gain then Right for the wrong reasons. The whole campaign has really been nothing short of embarrassing on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts