blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: someone happy to accept a Pig story with zero evidence seems to have missed this You are Donald Trump and I claim my 5 dollars - just make shit up, why don't you! I've never said anything about me "accepting" the Cammy hammy piggy story as true (or untrue). It was just something funny in a book and then reported by the papers. I have no idea if old etonians have to, or choose to, er. insert their pinkies into porkies. Still, fire away with more drivel if you must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, blandy said: You are Donald Trump and I claim my 5 dollars - just make shit up, why don't you! I've never said anything about me "accepting" the Cammy hammy piggy story as true (or untrue). It was just something funny in a book and then reported by the papers. I have no idea if old etonians have to, or choose to, er. insert their pinkies into porkies. Still, fire away with more drivel if you must. your opinions are held with equal esteem thought a mod of this web site would know better ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 34 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: your opinions are held with equal esteem It's not about your opinion, Tony, which I genuinely respect, it's about you posting an untrue statement as to what I "believe" or "accept to be true" - that's the drivel. to which I referred. Like If I was to write about some post you made - "I'm not surprised given you think that the Moon landings are a fraud" - it's just made up bunkum. _Dismiss a comment (or question) based upon a false assertion about another posters views - drivel. Like Trump speaks about what he said before Iraq, or about Women or any of the other crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 minute ago, blandy said: It's not about your opinion, Tony, which I genuinely respect, it's about you posting an untrue statement as to what I "believe" or "accept to be true" - that's the drivel. to which I referred. Like If I was to write about some post you made - "I'm not surprised given you think that the Moon landings are a fraud" - it's just made up bunkum. _Dismiss a comment (or question) based upon a false assertion about another posters views - drivel. Like Trump speaks about what he said before Iraq, or about Women or any of the other crap fair enough sorry I've mis-interpreted your tone ... thing is you've made countless references to the pig , which sort of gives it some credence as a story , you haven't referred to Osborne and a pig , or May and a pig ..only Cameron ,ok maybe that doesn't equate to acceptance so my bad and I apologise there. I meant my post more as a liberal in general somethings are accepted without evidence , whereas other things aren't ... I'm not really of the belief the Clintons have bumped off 42 people , but there is a nagging doubt out there that they aren't clean , hence my original comparison to Putin ... Putin isn't a dictator he's a statesman , a good or bad one is another question , but then equally you could say that about Merkel whose obsession with being the good Germans seems to have been to Europes detriment .. P.s I would have produced evidence of your "acceptance" of the pig story but the thread was deleted by someone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: fair enough sorry I've mis-interpreted your tone ... thing is you've made countless references to the pig , which sort of gives it some credence as a story , you haven't referred to Osborne and a pig , or May and a pig ..only Cameron ,ok maybe that doesn't equate to acceptance so my bad and I apologise there. I meant my post more as a liberal in general somethings are accepted without evidence , whereas other things aren't ... I'm not really of the belief the Clintons have bumped off 42 people , but there is a nagging doubt out there that they aren't clean , hence my original comparison to Putin ... Putin isn't a dictator he's a statesman , a good or bad one is another question , but then equally you could say that about Merkel whose obsession with being the good Germans seems to have been to Europes detriment .. P.s I would have produced evidence of your "acceptance" of the pig story but the thread was deleted by someone Cool.. You're right I have made a number of piggy references about Cameron, but only when scratching around for some porky pun or, to see if I can get anyone crackling with laughter. There's loads of people have done piggy gags, that doesn't mean they all accept he actually did, y'know, pork a porker. And also he does look like he' made of ham, the shiny faced poshtard. Anyways, regarding Clintons and Putin - I share the concern that Hillary might be a bit crooked - probably in terms of funding or business dealings - the dishonesty re the e mail server and going back, the whole whitewater thing and all that. But Putin is truly different league. He's seriously, seriously, I dunno what the right word is - utterly rotten to his core, perhaps? I've read quite a lot of investigations and research into him, his cohorts, his manoeuvring, his finances (or those of his associates) the deaths of his political opponents, of people who have stood up to him, or who pose any risk to his continued grip on power. It's utterly chilling just how cold and calculating and murderous he appears to be. That's before you get into the annexing of Crimea, the involvement of Russian military in plain clothes in Ukraine, events in Chechnya, brutality in Syria and elsewhere. I'm as cynical and critical as the next man about some of the U.S. amd other western nations conduct at times, but Putin's Russia is way beyond the level of badness of the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 25 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: P.s I would have produced evidence of your "acceptance" of the pig story but the thread was deleted by someone There isn't any, apart from this video clip of me saying it's all true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 hour ago, blandy said: Cool.. You're right I have made a number of piggy references about Cameron, but only when scratching around for some porky pun or, to see if I can get anyone crackling with laughter. There's loads of people have done piggy gags, that doesn't mean they all accept he actually did, y'know, pork a porker. And also he does look like he' made of ham, the shiny faced poshtard. Anyways, regarding Clintons and Putin - I share the concern that Hillary might be a bit crooked - probably in terms of funding or business dealings - the dishonesty re the e mail server and going back, the whole whitewater thing and all that. But Putin is truly different league. He's seriously, seriously, I dunno what the right word is - utterly rotten to his core, perhaps? I've read quite a lot of investigations and research into him, his cohorts, his manoeuvring, his finances (or those of his associates) the deaths of his political opponents, of people who have stood up to him, or who pose any risk to his continued grip on power. It's utterly chilling just how cold and calculating and murderous he appears to be. That's before you get into the annexing of Crimea, the involvement of Russian military in plain clothes in Ukraine, events in Chechnya, brutality in Syria and elsewhere. I'm as cynical and critical as the next man about some of the U.S. amd other western nations conduct at times, but Putin's Russia is way beyond the level of badness of the west. Annexing Crimea: You mean after the coup in Ukraine and the subsequent vote by the people in Crimea? Syria: Don't you remember the debate in your parliament where you decided to... bomb a sovereign nation? Russia has been invited by the government of Syria to help tackle the terrorist threat in Syria. Though, I suppose we get to play good terrorist/bad terrorist here? Oh, and as the local AQ boys have gone and rebranded, then it's great that US/NATO etc. are nominally on their side? Chechnya: This is a genuine thing to point at. Iraq: Oh right... not Russia, whoops. I'm being a bit factious here, but for any American or British citizen to point fingers is basically taking the piss... and yes I do know that you are aware of your own nations crimes. I'm just trying to highlight the silliness of Russia == evil de jour... apropos to @tonyh29 There's an awful lot of badness doing the rounds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 26 minutes ago, villakram said: for any American or British citizen to point fingers is basically taking the piss What a pile of rubbish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 29 minutes ago, villakram said: for any American or British citizen to point fingers is basically taking the piss... and yes I do know that you are aware of your own nations crimes. I'm just trying to highlight the silliness of Russia == evil de jour I totally disagree it's taking the piss. As you say I am aware of the actions of the UK and US etc. and of those of Russia. While the US and Russia in particular have both bombed civilian sites or convoys and claimed "dreadfully sorry, compete accident" and so on, Russia is doing so more intensely, more frequently and more deliberately. Dissent against US leaders is open and tolerated. Not so with Putin - he has critics and opponents, well, they end up dead. Shot, poisoned, and there's a long and growing list others survive. Quote The murder of opposition politician Boris Nemtsov close to the Kremlin makes him the latest vocal critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin to die violently or in suspicious circumstances. The former deputy prime minister was gunned down in central Moscow while walking home from a restaurant with his girlfriend on Friday...... Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died in November 2006, almost three weeks after drinking tea poisoned with radioactive polonium-210.... Ms Politkovskaya The 48-year-old journalist, a prominent critic of Mr Vladimir Putin, was gunned down at her Moscow apartment block on 7 October 2006, the president's birthday. She was shot twice in the chest, once in the shoulder, and once, at point blank range, in the head... Lawyer Sergei Magnitsky died in police custody in November 2009 after allegedly being denied medical treatment and brutally beaten..... Natalia Estemirova had two bullet wounds to the head. The prominent human rights activist was found dead hours after being kidnapped on 15 July, 2009, in the Chechen capital, Grozny. The 51-year-old had collected evidence of human rights abuses in Chechnya since the start of the second war there in 1999. She also worked with the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was murdered in 2006. .....Leading human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov was gunned down in broad daylight on 19 January, 2009.... This isn't a case of me saying "the west is in the clear because Russia is worse - it'sm e saying (like you) that There's an awful lot of badness doing the rounds, but when you look into the Russian situation it's way beyond any western level of shenanigans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, blandy said: but when you look into the Russian situation it's way beyond any western level of shenanigans. how do we know , we get sorta fed the line about what the Russians are up to but do we know that the west aren't also practising the dark arts ? the deaths in Russia on paper look like government assassinations but on paper so do some of the US prominent deaths ... maybe the only difference is in the West we make it look like someone accidental stabbing themselves in the back 12 times instead of the Russian bulldozer approach which appears to be designed to discourage anyone else as much as taking care of the person in hand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 34 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: how do we know , we get sorta fed the line about what the Russians are up to but do we know that the west aren't also practising the dark arts ? the deaths in Russia on paper look like government assassinations but on paper so do some of the US prominent deaths ... maybe the only difference is in the West we make it look like someone accidental stabbing themselves in the back 12 times instead of the Russian bulldozer approach which appears to be designed to discourage anyone else as much as taking care of the person in hand ? It's good to be sceptical. For my part I read quite a lot - different newspapers, news sites, tv radio, documentaries - not just mainstream western media, but also other stuff (if it's in english). This doesn't lead to knowing, but it is information, which can build up a picture. Which Clinton (or Obama) opponents are you referring to, btw? We get to see how mossad ends up deading people, we have access to RT TV and media, AL Jazeera all kinds. There was a period a while back where it looked like the CIA were, well,...where people (scientists) were meeting surprise unfortunate deaths in the US. We know the west has attempted and sometimes succeeded in overthrowing various regimes - Like I say I wasn't "ah But" The picture of hi level Russian criminality is absolutely stark if you care to look. Even the panama papers show it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, snowychap said: What a pile of rubbish. ahem... nice of you to overlook the incorrectly spelled facetious part! Edited October 20, 2016 by villakram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 20 minutes ago, blandy said: It's good to be sceptical. For my part I read quite a lot - different newspapers, news sites, tv radio, documentaries - not just mainstream western media, but also other stuff (if it's in english). This doesn't lead to knowing, but it is information, which can build up a picture. Which Clinton (or Obama) opponents are you referring to, btw? We get to see how mossad ends up deading people, we have access to RT TV and media, AL Jazeera all kinds. There was a period a while back where it looked like the CIA were, well,...where people (scientists) were meeting surprise unfortunate deaths in the US. We know the west has attempted and sometimes succeeded in overthrowing various regimes - Like I say I wasn't "ah But" The picture of hi level Russian criminality is absolutely stark if you care to look. Even the panama papers show it up. you only do wrong if you get caught and even then it appears that you also have to be prosecuted. Clearly, that purely a Russian thing. I don't think anyone has claimed that Russia is any sort of paragon, it's more pointing out the ridiculous cold war nonsense that is re-emerging. The largest off shore banking jurisdictions in the globe are under the control of which nation? No leaks from there though. Anyway, back on topic: Syria, if "we" simply backed off, there would have been a solution there a long time ago. Our hands are filthy. The empire will not go quietly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 Er.... meanwhile Mosul is on the verge of being taken from IS and effectively territorially at least removing them from what was Iraq. A pretty significant development and one which you would expect will result in a lot of overseas fighters being killed or captured not to mention some fairly significant IS leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 good riddance... fingers crossed the Iraqi army et al. behave themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 Indeed, as always the question is about what comes next. For now at least the Iraqi army and Kurds seem to be find ways to work together respectfully. The real test isn't so much ISIS it's more how they let their differences affect things once the common enemy that is unifying them is removed. Sadly I think we probably know and further conflict is likely as the two factions dispute what comes next. It is inevitable that the Kurds will seek to establish a nation state while the Iraqi army and Government won't conceed territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 The west will finally stand by the Kurds, do the decent thing and make sure they get their reward, their own state run how they want to run it, guided and funded and protected through its early years until it can stand independently amongst the family of nations. Ahhhh, only joking. Wonder when we'll see the first terrorist drone over europe? Media will shit its collective pants and declare the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2016 59 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Wonder when we'll see the first terrorist drone over europe? Media will shit its collective pants and declare the end of the world. We had Gerry Adams drone on for years already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) On 9/22/2016 at 14:52, Ikantcpell said: Awol, could you update us on what is going on in the middle east ? Read somewhere that isis is getting smaller and smaller and is soon wiped out, any truth in this ? Also the war in Yemen is pretty bad, but for some reason the western media doesn't report much about this. I don't think anyone answered this, but the latest I heard was a branch of a allied Saudi world renowned terrorist organisation recently bombed Yemen for the first time, A branch going by the name USNAVY I believe. Edited October 20, 2016 by mockingbird_franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: The west will finally stand by the Kurds, do the decent thing and make sure they get their reward, their own state run how they want to run it, guided and funded and protected through its early years until it can stand independently amongst the family of nations. Fairly sure Turkey have said over their dead body when it comes to having a Kurd state on their border probably be the sweetener to fast track Turkey into the EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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