fran_villa Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 people are going on about GH having this long term plan for the youth setup and the scouting network ,but at what clubs has he ever created this type of situation ,because if i'm right in thinking Rafa had to get rid of most of the dirt his youth setup had at Liverpool.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Houllier **** up the youth system at Anfiled. I think Bickster who is a little closer to the situation can give more details on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 If it has gotten to the stage where we are relying on Kevin Macdonald to come in to the first team set up and do what Houllier and Gary Mac are increasingly failing to do - get any kind of performance out of a good group of players - then that tells me that we no longer need Houllier or his assistant. Is this even confirmed that MacDonald is now part of the first team coaching staff? If he is I expect he'll be on the bench tomorrow hopefully looking a little more interested than the manager.I just thoough i seen it in another thread mate ,i could be wrong though :? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Houllier **** up the youth system at Anfiled. I think Bickster who is a little closer to the situation can give more details on this.i think the last player Plop brought through that was any use was Stevie me right??.very strange that people think he can turn us into some kind of Barca/Arsenal..Lyon already had a great setup before he got there to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 In response to the above that Houllier is out of touch with the Premier League - I think that is the main problem, in that - he is not ! The premier league has, over the past few years become much more continental, on and off the field. Apart from Man C- gone are the days of paying millions - sa clubs cannot afford it. We / and others need to go the way Arsenal and Barcelona have done for the psat 10 yrs - and that is what Houllier is attempting to do. NOW - the problem for me, is, if we are talking just about Houllier - he has attempted to do far too much too soon - and we are in turmoil. I kept saying it to the general - "You can't turn Richard Dunne into Bobby Moore !" Houlliers issue is that he has come in, said "It's my way - and try and question me, and you are out" to players that just can't do it his way. He has alienated a lot of the squad, and the ones he hasn't, aren't experienced enough to do sod all about it. For all I hated MON, that was one thing he did well when he came in. He saw what we had in a squad that was nearly relegated, and he got them playing in a way that made us safe until he could start bringing in his own players. I blame a lot of this mess on the board - but Houllier has done some bloody stupid things, and it could be very very costly ! This is basically my point too Paul. I liked the thought of a new scouting system and all of the nice contacts to tap up abroad so we can cherry pick some younger foreign players on the cheap. I also like the thought of building a programme whereby we move our players through from the youth team to the first team ala Barca and Arsenal. truth is, we are seeing that happen right now with the young lads that have come through and that was before Houllier came here! i guess we are looking for better quality kids to come through in 5 or 6 years time and i get that. What I don't like is the "let's do it all now" approach that Houllier seems to have taken. Such drastic changes were never going to go down well. Obviously the next generation of players will buy into that but firstly we need to get through this season without being relegated and without the players on his side it is going to be very difficult to do that IMO. His mistake as surely been making too many changes too soon. maybe he should have brought in a couple for now and then get rid of the players who he thought wouldn't be able to fit in to the new ways in the next couple of transfer windows. The other issue is the funding of new players. MON spent a hell of a lot of money on the players we have at our disposal. How much will more skillful players cost? Randy will have to splash the cash if he wants pretty free-flowing football at Villa Park in the immediate future, that's for sure. The one other thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned is, what happens if the new arrivals also decide that they don't like the style of Houllier's management? where the hell does that leave us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Decent assessment of things in the Guardian: Fans' fractured faith could prove Gérard Houllier's downfall at Villa o Stuart James o The Observer, Sunday 2 January 2011 o Article history At Gérard Houllier's opening press conference at Aston Villa he dismissed any suggestion there would be a problem when asked whether he would find it difficult to manage Premier League players after a six-year absence. Three months later, amid stories of growing player unrest, Houllier was reminded of the answer he gave to that question and asked if he would still give the same response. "I don't want to answer that question," he said. It was a reply that said everything one needed to know about the problems Houllier has experienced since returning to English football in September. Villa's options were severely restricted when Martin O'Neill announced his departure on the eve of the season but their decision to turn to the former Liverpool manager, which was met with a mixed response from Villa supporters, is beginning to look like a big mistake. What can be said with certainty is that Houllier underestimated the size of the job he took on. He had flatly rejected the notion that this season should be written off as one of transition when he took over but after the 4-0 drubbing at Manchester City last Tuesday he accepted Villa are in a relegation battle. Villa are in freefall, have lost five of their last six league games and this afternoon face Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, where they lost 7-1 last season. Never mind debating whether Houllier should have been given the job; the big question now is whether he should hold on to it. Houllier fans – and they are becoming a rare species – claim it is unfair to judge the Frenchman when he has been unable to bring in his own players. Yet the flipside to that argument is that, with the exception of Stephen Ireland's arrival and James Milner's departure, Houllier is working with the same squad who finished sixth in May. So where has it all gone wrong? In Houllier's defence he has been unfortunate with injuries and there is no evidence to suggest a harsher training regime has contributed to the number of players in the treatment room. He has also seen a couple of key players struggle for form. Gabriel Agbonlahor is still looking for his first league goal of the season while Richard Dunne was a liability in central defence before he fell out with Houllier. Yet it also has to be said that Houllier has contributed to his own downfall. He admitted it was a mistake publicly to castigate Ireland who, rightly or wrongly, has always been a player who benefits from an arm around the shoulder rather than a kick up the backside. Ireland has been marginalised along with John Carew and Dunne. The trio earn in excess of £150,000 a week between them but have not played a minute of football since 6 December. On Friday Houllier said all three could be reintegrated into his plans, which is perhaps not surprising given Villa's predicament, although it might be easier said than done. Ireland has suggested he would like to leave, Carew has so little respect for Houllier that he ranked him bottom in a list of the seven managers he has played under and Dunne made his thoughts clear during a spat on the training ground witnessed by his Villa team-mates. Things would not be so bad if Houllier had a decent relationship with the Villa fans but he has burned rather than built bridges. He told a French newspaper on the day he arrived that Villa "belonged between seventh and 12th place in the Premier League" and his comments since have been peppered with references to Liverpool. And that was before his bizarre behaviour at Anfield last month, for which he was forced to apologise four days later. The Villa board are standing firmly behind Houllier but there is a sense the supporters are running out of patience. Assuming Villa fail to pick up anything at Chelsea today, which seems likely given their appalling away record (played nine, won 1, drawn 1, lost seven, scored 5, against 22), the home game against Sunderland on Wednesday night will become pivotal. Another defeat then and the Holte End could turn. http://tinyurl.com/32ueqkg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 2, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2011 One problem with that article, the end. I'd argue it already has turned. And that's a worry for the Frenchmans survival at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well the away supporters certainly turned at 4-0 down at Eastlands. There is no doubt that if we fail to win on Wednesday things will turn ugly for Houllier at VP and he'll feel the wrath of the supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 My big worry is that people start turning on Houllier on Wednesday night before the final whistle (assuming we lose as expected against Chelsea). I fear that if we go 1-0 down against Sunderland early on in the game the nasty chants will be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I would hope that the supporters will stay behind the team for 90 mins unless, as at Eastlands, we are losing badly with no hope of coming back. The anti Houllier chants started after about an hour at Eastlands when were were losing 4-0 which, as someone who was there, I felt was fair enough as the game was effectively over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 2, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2011 My big worry is that people start turning on Houllier on Wednesday night before the final whistle (assuming we lose as expected against Chelsea). I fear that if we go 1-0 down against Sunderland early on in the game the nasty chants will be out. I agree. In fact i would bet my house that if we're losing to Sunderland at half time the team will get booed off at thalf time, regardless of the performance they've put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I would hope that the supporters will stay behind the team for 90 mins unless, as at Eastlands, we are losing badly with no hope of coming back. The anti Houllier chants started after about an hour at Eastlands when were were losing 4-0 which, as someone who was there, I felt was fair enough as the game was effectively over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Even at 4-0 down, I don't like to see my team get booed by its own fans while the game is still being played. Negative chants or reactions towards your own team must be kept until after the full-time whistle has blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Edit. Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Even at 4-0 down, I don't like to see my team get booed by its own fans while the game is still being played. Negative chants or reactions towards your own team must be kept until after the full-time whistle has blown.Weren't they chanting against the manager, not the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The chants were not against the team. The chants were against the manager. Whether you like it or not people pay their money and they have the right to make there feelings known at 4-0 down. Especially as this was the second away game on the trot that we had rolled over with out any fight and at the end of the previous away game the manager had lauded it in front of the Kop and ignored his own teams fans. Houllier is very much reaping what he as sowed with shit results and performances and to add insult to injury disrespecting the supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The chants were not against the team. The chants were against the manager. Whether you like it or not people pay their money and they have the right to make there feelings known at 4-0 down. Especially as this was the second away game on the trot that we had rolled over with out any fight and at the end of the previous away game the manager had lauded it in front of the Kop and ignored his own teams fans. Houllier is very much reaping what he as sowed with shit results and performances and to add insult to injury disrespecting the supporters.Even then I think that such chants should be kept until after the final whistle, or at least right near the end. I'm not gonna condemn people who do do it as they are paying fans but it's just my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The game was over mate. It was after around 60 mins the anti Houllier chants started. We had been gutless and were 4-0 down. The only thing that saved us from a bigger hiding was Man City taking their foot off the gas. In fact the game was over after less than 30 minutes but fair play to the supporters, and I include myself, we were tremendous and kept backing the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The game was over mate. It was after around 60 mins the anti Houllier chants started. We had been gutless and were 4-0 down. The only thing that saved us from a bigger hiding was Man City taking their foot off the gas. In fact the game was over after less than 30 minutes but fair play to the supporters, and include myself, we were tremendous and kept backing the team.I know it was, I was just saying that it's not something I personally approve of or would do. I'm not criticising you or anyone else who was at that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Ha, just did a Prem predictor....had us finishing 10th....funny thing was, we only had 41 points!! Wins: Fulham, Blackburn, Stoke, Wigan (all home) draws: West Ham (a), West Brom (a), Wolves (h), Toon (h), Wigan (a), Blues (a), Sunderland (h), Blackpool (a), Liverpool (h) Losses: United(a), City(h), Chelsea(a), Bolton(a), Everton(a), Arsenal(a). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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