Derryvillan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Oh righteo.Yeah watched TDK thursday night again before seeing Returns on friday.Walked out afterwards thinking TDKR wasn't as good but will probably give it another watch.I really need another film tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It actually needs Nolans original 4hour cut to allow scenes to breathe, have a beat about them. Never was a 4hr cut, what you see is what was filmed, has been the same for all his batman films. Said himself no deleted scenes on the DVD because there are none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 There are flaws throughout, Just like the TDK then, hidden by Ledger impressive performance and the fact he passed away soon after. 1. Boat scene. 2. Whats the point of faking Gordon's death? 3. Mobile phone sonar! 4. Jokers plan is made up of pure coincidence. Etc etc Obviously Rises has similar issues, but both films work fine and are cracking entertaining films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 'oh shit, we need talia al guhl." I felt zero connection to her at all. Couldn't agree more with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 There are flaws throughout, Just like the TDK then, hidden by Ledger impressive performance and the fact he passed away soon after. 1. Boat scene. 2. Whats the point of faking Gordon's death? 3. Mobile phone sonar! 4. Jokers plan is made up of pure coincidence. Etc etc Obviously Rises has similar issues, but both films work fine and are cracking entertaining films. Agreed, yet TDK felt complete and less of a mess. It was a neat package, whereas TDKR felt like a sprawling package that was lacking a destination. By the way, the boat scene was the only valid criticism out of those you listed. That itself was done for a reason though and doesn't really take up much time. The point of Gordon faking his death was to protect his family from the Joker. He mentions this in the film itself. When it comes to the mobile phone sonar I think the best explanation for that would be creative liberty. It's just a way of making out that Batman has technology that others can only dream of. On that note, I have actually read that it would be possible to have this sonar n a controlled environment. Therefore it is possible to some extent. Then there is of course Joker's plan. It is purely based on coincidence, yet aren't most things? He puts things into motion and has an idea of what may happen. This could be said for most things in life that are gambled upon. Many people bet on what they feel will be a sure bet, as the Joker does. Let's not forget that this is a comic book film. I do think I could pick far more holes out of TDKR though... Some say the Joker carried TDK and it's true to an extent. However, I just feel that TDK was fantastic on the whole. I'm not quite sure why you're mentioning the fact that Ledger passed away shortly after. That doesn't make his performance any less than it was. He deserved an Oscar nomination at the very least for his role as the Joker and was rightly rewarded. Watch it again and you will see the pure brilliance that he filled that role with. Anyway, it's all down to personal preference. I agree that both films work fine and provide really good entertainment, yet I think TDK edges TDKR in terms of overall quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 What was wrong about the boat scene? I felt soooo tense the first time I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The boat scene is actually a pretty major part of the jokers story arch and is explained by him and batman while they fight. Joker believes that the world is fundamentally a bad place and everyone in it if given the right push will do horrible things. Batman believes the opposite. Joker does things throughout the whole movie to prove he's point, kill the other goon to join his gang, kill Reese or hell blow the hospital, make your hero batman give up or more people die and finally blow up the other boat to survive. Batman believes there is good and he dresses as batman to inspire the people to respond and safe their city. The boat scene is the final 'well which one of us are right?' moment and is a major moment of the story. As for TDKR I liked it more the second time but I feel the gap between when the football pitch and the beginning of the final act is too long and repeats old themes from BB. The first movie is an origins and can only be classed as a pretty good foundation. TDK is a crime movie batman is called the worlds greatest detective and should have always been based in a crime type envoirment, it suits he's character and the movie is the better for it. TDKR is a war movie. What would batman do in a war zone, for me this takes away from what batman is and forces him out of the dark and it means he's exposed and doesnt get to do much batman stuff. I wasn't convinced. Having said all that I did like it because, well, they took batman out of the dark and out him in a warzone and that's kinda cool. It just wasn't pulled off as well as TDK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 !!!!! SPOILERS !!!!!! I thought it was the best of the three but then again I'm an idiot. I liked how it echoed the origins story of BB, the detective/crime story elements were there (catwoman, figuring out who she was, the fingerprints thing, the heist at the stock exchange etc...., then I also liked how they handled Bane and how his backstory was drip fed and the reveal which gives him a more human side is quite sad really. I always felt something was missing from TDK, I never took to it like others did, I wasn't a massive fan of Ledgers Joker either, it's a good film but I thought TDKR was better, a good mix of the two first films with its own story and feel thrown in. Also, I think I missed what happened to Crane/Scarecrow? !!!!! END SPOILERS !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Another thing, I don't know if it's just poor quality of the film or if the cinema staff gimped it themselves but the picture quality was awful, it was so dark and fuzzy. The audio was shocking, I missed a lot of dialogue even during quiet parts, Banes voice was cool but the they did a poor job on polishing it, I missed as much of his words as I heard. Lastly, the music was so loud and overbearing. Same for everyone else or just my local cinema being shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Must admit I didn't notice that, a couple of times it took a couple of run throughs in my head to work out what Bane had said but didn't struggle with anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 then I also liked how they handled Bane and how his backstory was drip fed and the reveal which gives him a more human side is quite sad really. I didn't like that they did that to Bane tbh, preferred Joker-style pure evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Another thing, I don't know if it's just poor quality of the film or if the cinema staff gimped it themselves but the picture quality was awful, it was so dark and fuzzy. The audio was shocking, I missed a lot of dialogue even during quiet parts, Banes voice was cool but the they did a poor job on polishing it, I missed as much of his words as I heard. Lastly, the music was so loud and overbearing. Did you watch it in IMAX? The picture quality was fantastic as expected but yeah shocking audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 22, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2012 It stands up better on a second watch as expected. It does appear that the audio mix is ****. The soundtrack is completely overdone, it drowns out numerous scenes and the dialogue feels dialed back. Apart from Bane who is far, far too loud - it's honestly like he's using a megaphone, and worse because you obviously can't see his face it almost feels like you're watching a poorly dubbed foreign language film when he speaks. Some spoiler-y stuff follows... Bane doesn't have a back story in this. The film leads you to believe that it's telling you Bane's origins but, as the twist towards the end reveals, you're being taught Talia's back story. By the end of the film, all we know about Bane is that he was a prisoner in the pit, and took it on himself to protect the child born there, was injured (somehow) as she escaped, was begrudgingly taken in by Ra's thanks to his daughter's pleas and then was excommunicated by Ra's as Bane's existance reminded him of the Bane of losing his love. We don't know much about Bane's past that does not relate to Talia. We didn't know about the Joker's origin in TDK, but because he's such a... well, character... we don't really care, we actually somewhat enjoy the mystery behind him (the Joker even plays it up - 'You wanna know how I got these scars?'). Bane does not - he's an intense physical presence but he's not the character the Joker was, and the interest imo lies in what drives him. Apparently we have to make do with 'He really loves Talia and will help her in her mission'. The film's game with Bane's back story actually plays a trick on anyone who knows the comic's original interpretation of Bane. In those Bane was a child born in a horrific prison, so as you watch TDKR you know the story and are taken in by what you expect to be a fairly straight interpretation of the canon Bane origin. I do wonder how someone who doesn't know the characters/plots that this has will take some of the twists and turns it has. I put up my guess at the plot and, asides from the (largely on reflection **** pointless additional complexity) of Daggett trying to take over Wayne Enterprises and bankrupt Bruce, and less using the symbolism of Batman to break the city, I was largely bang on, and it meant I was one step ahead of the film for the entire run. The Talia reveal was obvious (and rushed), the end of Bruce Wayne's Batman and John Blake taking up the cowl was guessable months ago... I wonder if the uninitiated will be more wowed by those moments... and I also wonder if they will 'get' that Bane breaks Batman's back before the film tells them 15 minutes later that his back is ****, because the scene itself just doesn't have the power of the famous scene in the comics. Bane in this kinda just drops him onto his knee. In all honesty some of the punches have more weight behind them, and I criticise the film for how it portrays them even. The ending also strikes me as a cop-out. Nolan seems to have played at some ambiguity but then shied away from it. It's clear he wanted to kill off Bruce, but then got cold feet and they fudge together a 'did he, didn't he' ending where the film places 3 clear nods towards 'he didn't'. Also I can see the Robin nod setting the geeks into a rage. 'HIS NAMES DICK GRAYSON ARGH!'. Oh and Blake working out that Wayne was Batman, because of the look in his eye, should give everyone in the audience a look in their eye - a rolly one. End of spoiler-y stuff It's an entertaining watch, it's the most blockbuster-y of Nolan's Batman films and it's flawed as ****... but it's still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Spoilers To be honest I thought the ending was unnecessary, quite happy with Alfred's nod, but we didn't need to see Bruce. I also thought that it was obvious from a long way out that the new guy was being lined up to be Robin, even contrived when Batman told him he should wear a mask. We should have left him when the lady told him that Robin was a nice name (said something like "you should use your middle name") and left it to the audience imagination. Sadly we have to be force fed endings. My only other thought was whether Alfred did infact see Bruce or whether that was his imagination. End of spoiler. Great film, looking forward to a second viewing. Is the 4 hour cut a rumour or does it exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Warnings of a spoilers kind!!!!! I'm not sure Nolans interpretation of Bane needed much of a backstory other than as a plot device and decoy for Talia, he is a mercenary for hire who has a weakness for Talia, she hired him knowing he would do pretty much anything for her due to his love for her which ultimately led to his downfall. Much like the guy who was happy to die in the plane crash, Bane was happy to play his part to further Talias/LoS cause because he wanted to impress Talia. That's what I thought anyway, probably wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 "So that's what that feels like". Really enjoyed it. Best part of it. I liked both Hardy's Bane and Hathaway's Catwoman. All 3 films have been very good, The Dark Knight was just a level above because of Ledger's performance, the darkness of it and the film in general. I didn't think I'd like JGL's character but he was good. Potential for some more Batman movies soon then I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 22, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2012 Oh and what the **** is wrong with people these days? We went to a different cinema last night (ODEON New Street) and while it wasn't the really **** annoying kids, honestly... how **** hard is to sit down, shut the **** up and turn your **** phone off for a couple of hours? The screening was packed and we ended up sat in the middle of a row with a gang of lads trying their hardest to look shifty and out for trouble, and a couple who looked like something out of what I imagine the Only Way is Essex is like. The lads would not **** shut up, and if I never hear the message alert tone from a iPhone or Blackberry again it'll be too soon. I mean, we've paid our money go enjoy a film, not to listen to wannabe gangsters flap their wispy top lip and regale us all with how **** funny they are (more laughs in abortion clinics), nor did I want the film to have an additional score by way of tinny speakers alerting some clearing in the woods that Sharon's added the photos from Marbella. Oh and I also didn't need the auditorium lit up like Blackpool Pleasure Beach from the assorted Retina screens for the entire **** running time. Nor can I possibly understand why people don't get what a 12A is. There was a 6 year old in that showing last night. I really needed to have the screen blocked every half hour because the kid needed a piss. On the plus side the regular pissing blocked my retinas from being burned out by the collected force of people receiving tags and tweets that really had to be checked that very moment. On the downside, right at the moment where the film really starts to kick in, the child returned from pissing to loudly announce 'WHERES BATMAN?!', at a frequency and volume that I believe could have drawn answers from Sydney. I know its a Batman film, but it's a 12. It isn't a kids film. Leave the kids at home. It won't have so far to go to piss and will annoy far fewer people. Honestly, I don't understand why people are unable to take consideration for other people in a cinema. If you're so desperately required to look at your phone, or have a chat, or can't understand what an age rating is, don't go to the cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 apparently chindie they are considering allowing people to send text messages in america, apparently it will encourage more teens to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Fortunately we only had 1 retard incapable of turning his phone off near us. 2 women had to leave because, surprisingly, their young baby started crying for some reason. Couldn't have been that he was in a loud cinema could it? Parents are unreal sometimes. By the way, do you have a blog Chindie? You really should if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 message alert tone from a iPhone or Blackberry again it'll be too soon Silent mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts