Con Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 On the deck - I am not denying that he is capable, or at least more capable on the ball than other defenders, but you rarely see him make crunching tackles - such as Baker. He makes interceptions, not tackles. All defenders can be caught out of position, no player is infallible. However, Clark is caught out of position on a number of occasions. Play often bypasses him because of his poor aerial ability and because I do not think he is commanding enough to consistently go in and win the first ball. This is why he needs to be paired with a traditional club-footed defensive CB. Ultimately, I think Clark has failed to quite live up to the promise made about him. He is an average defender, who might be better than average alongside another more commanding centre half. But it cannot be denied that Clark, along with the rest of the defence, is strongly accountable for our recent form. It depends what your expectation was. If you expected him to play like Robert Huth or Branoslav Ivanovic you will be very disappointed. If your expectation is more like Gary Cahill - who also came through Villa academy - then Clark is showing promise. I think Clark's defending skill is higher than Cahill's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 No you need both of them to be able to defend and to be decent on the ball. You don't need a 'playmaking' CB and I'm convinced you've just made that position up off the top of your head lol. You don't need a centre half to be able to play defence splitting or 60 yard cross field passes, they just need to be able to give the ball to the midfield. Please read my post #969. It will help you understand the different kind of CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If you're a defender you have to be able to win headers and make tackles. End of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa87 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 A player needs to be able to tackle and make interceptions. If either are lacking then the player is weaker for it. You can have a mixture of different qualities as a centre half. I would hope to see Clark develop the basics of the defensive side of his game to accompany the more 'cultured' side to his game. As it is, being able to pass the ball along the back line is not the makings of a good centre half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) If you're a defender you have to be able to win headers and make tackles. End of. Not quite... it is also important to not pass the ball to the opposition strikers. Isn't that right, Branoslav Ivanovic? James Collins? During the game your defensive line will be near the middle circle. A CB who can pass well is also a great attacking asset here. We want our team to attack, so Ciaren Clark will be an asset when we attack. Edited January 12, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If you're a defender you have to be able to win headers and make tackles. End of. No apparently it is necessarily to be sub-standard at basic defending as long as you're a 'playmaker' LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Not quite... it is also important to not pass the ball to the opposition strikers. Isn't that right, Branoslav Ivanovic? James Collins? During the game your defensive line will be near the middle circle. A CB who can pass well is also a great attacking asset here. We want our team to attack, so Ciaren Clark will be an asset when we attack. No. If you were a manager and a scout said 'I've found this defender' your first question should be 'can he defend?' if the answer is no, then you don't bother with question 2, 'can he pass?'. Clark can't defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 No apparently it is necessarily to be sub-standard at basic defending as long as you're a 'playmaker' LOL No defending can stop a one-on-one with the keeper which is what happens if your defender miskicks the ball straight to the opposition. Talent is not infinite in supply, so there is usually a trade-off between defending and passing skill. There are very few Beckenbauer, Ramos, Kompany, Ferdinand, and Terry's who have it all but there are a lot of Robert Huths and James Collins who don't. So if you can't have a player who has it all - there are so few and all the biggest clubs have them - you have to compromise either on the defending skill or the passing skill. You can't have both. So your options are: - two James Collins at CB playing hoofball, giving ball away to opposition midfielders, misdirecting pass-backs to keeper - two David Lulz at CB playing fancy football, spraying passes around like David Beckham and scoring great goals, but making ludicrous traditional defensive errors like offside, positioning - one David Lulz and one James Collins. So like the top teams you get a bit of both skills, although you don't get them both in the single player i.e. Vincent Kompany, Sergio Ramos etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 He makes interceptions, not tackles. This is why he needs to be paired with a traditional club-footed defensive CB. It depends what your expectation was. If you expected him to play like Robert Huth or Branoslav Ivanovic you will be very disappointed. If your expectation is more like Gary Cahill - who also came through Villa academy - then Clark is showing promise. I think Clark's defending skill is higher than Cahill's. To be honest Clark has fell to pieces. I know when he was 16 - 17 - he was so highly rated, not just by villa - buth bigger clubs at home and abroad were keeping an eye on him. Villa were convinced he would have england caps by the time he was 20. I think it was this reputation which prompted Lambert to make him first choice CB However he hasn't progressed - and there is no such interest now. Let along Gary Cahill - I don't think he is as good as liam ridgewell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Let's just transfer list him in the summer and try and get some one who can defend properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Let's just transfer list him in the summer and try and get some one who can defend properly. Don't understand this comment after today's defensive performance. Would have been his 6th clean sheet of the season if it wasn't for the cheated penalty decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 He isn't fit to lace Gary Cahill's boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquaddieVilla Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 lets transfer list the **** lot of em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 42 goals conceded in 22 league games and Clark is a substantial reason for that, Time to move the lad on and get someone worthy of playing for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milfner Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Do not rate him. He gets way to tight to attackers who have their back to goal and gets outpaced on the turn time and time again because he's so **** slow yet he continues to get touch tight. His distribution isn't even that good either, always just knocks it out to the fullback and puts them under pressure. Not to mention the fact he can't win headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Time to move the lad on and get someone worthy of playing for this club. Well lets find a buyer and then with the £1 million find something better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Lacks pace but will learn to read the game better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Well lets find a buyer and then with the £1 million find something better? Good plan - not every signing has to cost mega bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 He's been poor, but so have all of our defence. I think it's slightly unfair to write him off yet though. He's 23 years old and shouldn't be expected to be our captain, and have to organise our defence. At this stage of his career, he should only be featuring in cup games, and the odd time our first choice CB's are injured/suspended. It doesn't help that he's playing with other young unexperienced defenders alongside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 dont think he was too bad yesterday to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts