P3te Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I think saying 'It doesn't work' is quite narrow sighted. Perhaps 'It didn't work for us last season' would have been more apt. Also I don't think anyone can judge Bacuna as yet, and I did caveat that obviously players can be shifted in and/or out of that lineup. 3 CB's has worked in the past for many teams, and will do in the future I am sure, I mean, so we really think we need to be 'solid' in the centre midfield position against say Crystal Palace for example? I'm not saying that it would be our go to formation, I was just saying it's interesting and probbaly does have a place as an option we could use. PS: I think messers McGrath, Southgate and Taylor may want to have a word about 3 CB's not working for us unless you've got 2 world class central midfieders, 5 at the back doesn't work in the modern game in england because everyone else has 3 CMs to your 2. That lineup you posted would have us **** murdered every match by literally any team in the division, purely because it couldn't compete in CM due to lack of manpower. Last year I thought it was a good idea, but we tried it and showed that it can't be done with our current personnel (i'd argue that it can't be done regardless any more... you'd need keane and viera in there to play against modern systems) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 The biggest plus for Lambo is Clark's versatility. The biggest negativity for Clark is his own versatility. This is the paradox. Ciaran will find it extremely difficult to make a regular starting place his own this season because it's difficult to confirm his best position in the team. He is a very cultured player with a sweet left foot. He can comfortably fit in with a 3 at the back, comfortably play in a back 4 at LB or CB & is also stylish in the centre of midfield or on the left of midfield. If he could just play with more of an edge to his game, cut out the silly errors & concentrate more there exists a real opportunity for Ciaran to really develop his game. It's going to be tough ask though because we have loads of healthy competition & players who are currently ahead of Clark in all those positions mentioned. I still remain a big fan of Clark & think he is definitely one for the future. Lambert just sees him as a centre half though? I prefer Clark in central midfield, I think that area is the best chance of him having a long term premier league career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 3, 2013 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2013 PS: I think messrs McGrath, Southgate and Taylor may want to have a word about 3 CB's not working for us A strange three people to pick out to prove the point (but the point is an excellent one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 PS: I think messrs McGrath, Southgate and Taylor may want to have a word about 3 CB's not working for us A strange three people to pick out to prove the point (but the point is an excellent one). The problem with 3 at the back is that when we are on the back foot the full backs get penned back so it becomes 5 at the back then the wide players track back and tuck in to help the midfielders which leaves your centre forward as the only put ball. A lot of temas play 4-2-3-1 these days which means 3 at the back rarely works. At the time we played this way a lot of teams played 4-4-2 but thats rarely used anymore. 4-5-1/4-3-3 is best for us I think. I wish we had centre backs of the quality of McGrath Southgate and Ehiogu again but Vlaar,Clark,Baker and Okore are a very very long way off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I am not really sure what Clark's main defensive ability is supposed to be. You can say that he distributes the ball well for a central defender or he is comfortable on the ball, but what does he bring defensively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Clark's error against Man City was a foul against him by Tevez, pure & simple that went unnoticed & unpunished by the shit Ref that we always get allocated as a Premier League rule. Clark was guilty of over confidence & got caught out by Teves's cuteness. This is just a part of his game that he will improve on in time. Clark undoubtedly has Potential & is a good squad player hence the new contract. It was Dzeko that took the ball off of Clark Correct. And he didn't foul him, either, Clark tried to be cute playing a tricky little turn and tripped over his own feet. There was no contact and no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Clark's error against Man City was a foul against him by Tevez, pure & simple that went unnoticed & unpunished by the shit Ref that we always get allocated as a Premier League rule. Clark was guilty of over confidence & got caught out by Teves's cuteness. This is just a part of his game that he will improve on in time. Clark undoubtedly has Potential & is a good squad player hence the new contract. It was Dzeko that took the ball off of Clark Correct. And he didn't foul him, either, Clark tried to be cute playing a tricky little turn and tripped over his own feet. There was no contact and no foul. It may well have been Dzeko who dispossessed Clark & if so I stand corrected. However, Clark was definitely fouled of that I am absolutely certain. It was an extremely poor decision by the referee but as I have already stated & conceded it was also a poor decision by Clark to attempt the drag back as the last man in defence with no obvious cover in behind. This does not detract from Ciaran's ability though. No way. On the contrary. He was confident enough to try it but hopefully he will learn that in that position as the last man it was a poor decision by him even though he actually got fouled. The real key to Ciaran's progress really is simple. Toughen up, concentrate & cut out the silly mistakes. I still rate him highly & as one poster has stated Central Midfield could well prove to be his best position. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alakagom Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) The thread icon summarizes him as a Villa player to this point. I hope best for him, but can't see it myself. Hope I am wrong about him though. Edited August 3, 2013 by Alakagom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 He's the new scapegoat, seems we need one around here these days....... He will come good I believe Bollocks to this scapegoat crap. He has been CONSISTENTLY awful for 6 to 8 months and we are well within our rights to pick up on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It was Dzeko that took the ball off of Clark Correct. And he didn't foul him, either, Clark tried to be cute playing a tricky little turn and tripped over his own feet. There was no contact and no foul. It may well have been Dzeko who dispossessed Clark & if so I stand corrected. However, Clark was definitely fouled of that I am absolutely certain. It was an extremely poor decision by the referee but as I have already stated & conceded it was also a poor decision by Clark to attempt the drag back as the last man in defence with no obvious cover in behind. I guess it's human nature that two people can watch the same thing but reach two different conclusions, like the Rashomon effect. I definitely see him tripping over his own feet. If that's not what you see, fair play. I think in 5-7 years, Baker and Clark partnering central defense could potentially be a very strong pairing, and 4/5ths of a pretty strong back 5 if Guzan remains in goal and Lowton at right back (jury's out on Bennett/Tony Moon). Baker staying back, winning headers, bullying strikers with his big physical presence, Clark roaming forward on occasion, playing that clever through ball that sets one of our forwards free. Could be. Potentially. Right now neither of them are there yet. In my opinion, Baker is closer. I'm not willing to write Clark off yet, but he has a lot of work to do this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Baker is nowhere near there yet. I'm not disparaging his talent, it's just his current level is over-exaggerated to counter-weight some peoples' dislike of Clark. Baker can become England's centreback but I challenge anyone to say with a straight face they'd take him to the 2014 World Cup over the alternatives. As for Dzeko's challenge, it occurred very quick but looking at that replay it is obvious he was fouled. Dzeko's left boot prevents Clark's right foot getting round so he can support himself. It was a clean Cruyff turn and Dzeko was sold, and instinctively stuck out a boot to foul Clark. Ref didn't give it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Baker is nowhere near there yet. I'm not disparaging his talent, it's just his current level is over-exaggerated to counter-weight some peoples' dislike of Clark. Baker can become England's centreback but I challenge anyone to say with a straight face they'd take him to the 2014 World Cup over the alternatives. As for Dzeko's challenge, it occurred very quick but looking at that replay it is obvious he was fouled. Dzeko's left boot prevents Clark's right foot getting round so he can support himself. It was a clean Cruyff turn and Dzeko was sold, and instinctively stuck out a boot to foul Clark. Ref didn't give it. I see the little hints have started, that we dislike Clark, just as he did in the Bannan thread. Steadily dropping it in, another month it'll be more and more and suddenly Clark is poor because we dislike him. No. Just as with Bannan, the poor performances frustrate us. Edited August 4, 2013 by dodgyknees 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I like Clark. Baker is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindz Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Baker has what Clark lacking, strenght both on the ground and in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Clark definitely slips before Edin clips him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Clark definitely slips before Edin clips him there. Yes, he does but the point is Clark would not have slipped over. He would be able to get up if it wasn't for Dzeko sticking his boot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 if clark was sold, i wouldnt be bothered, if baker was sold, id be gutted clark shouldnt play CB unless were playing 3 at the back and baker is injured, back up left back for him behind luna would be best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Lambert is no mug. There's a reason Baker has been starting the games and Clark hasn't . The real dilemma will be Baker Vlaar Okore and who doesn't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanxamillion Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 At premier league level he has been caught out / found wanting at times last season. I still think there could be a good premier league player there in him, Lambert clearly feels the same as he has sanctioned a new contract. I'm sure given support and training in the area's of weakness he and others within the team will improve further, and with the stronger squad last year's roller coaster season will stand us in good stead for the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonvillage Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Give Ciaran time I think he has the attributes to become a great player in either CB/CDM position with the guidance of lambert. I do agree he has been poor of late but we should support the lad I'm pretty sure he will come good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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