villa-revolution Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 The biggest plus for Lambo is Clark's versatility. The biggest negativity for Clark is his own versatility. This is the paradox. Ciaran will find it extremely difficult to make a regular starting place his own this season because it's difficult to confirm his best position in the team. He is a very cultured player with a sweet left foot. He can comfortably fit in with a 3 at the back, comfortably play in a back 4 at LB or CB & is also stylish in the centre of midfield or on the left of midfield. If he could just play with more of an edge to his game, cut out the silly errors & concentrate more there exists a real opportunity for Ciaran to really develop his game. It's going to be tough ask though because we have loads of healthy competition & players who are currently ahead of Clark in all those positions mentioned. I still remain a big fan of Clark & think he is definitely one for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 The biggest plus for Lambo is Clark's versatility. The biggest negativity for Clark is his own versatility. This is the paradox. Ciaran will find it extremely difficult to make a regular starting place his own this season because it's difficult to confirm his best position in the team. He is a very cultured player with a sweet left foot. He can comfortably fit in with a 3 at the back, comfortably play in a back 4 at LB or CB & is also stylish in the centre of midfield or on the left of midfield. If he could just play with more of an edge to his game, cut out the silly errors & concentrate more there exists a real opportunity for Ciaran to really develop his game. It's going to be tough ask though because we have loads of healthy competition & players who are currently ahead of Clark in all those positions mentioned. I still remain a big fan of Clark & think he is definitely one for the future. When has Clark ever been comfortable anywhere in the defence? Cutting out the silly errors and concentrating would certainly be a start, but he doesn't read the game very well either, isn't physical enough and isn't particularly quick. I much, much prefer Baker to Clark. He isn't as good a footballer as Clark, but he can defend, which for me is a good starting point for a central defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I prefer Clark to Baker but it's a very close call. Baker to his credit is an excellent defender but is still naive & prone to diving in. However, this is a part of his game that he can work on & improve. I think the reality though is that it will be Vlaar & Okore who nail down the Centre Back spots this season so Baker & Clark will both probably find their opportunity's limited to cover for injuries & suspensions. Also Matty Lowton can play this position too though I don't expect him to play there too often if at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Baker > Clark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Like the way Clark showed his critics today he can get a clean sheet. Excellent leadership quality too, patting teammates on the back when they scored, but not being too nancy about it. I'm sorry, I don't understand how this post can be a real, quantifiable opinion. I suppose he's shit statistically so may as well focus on intangible skills like back-patting-ability. Mental* *post not poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Baker > Clark As a defender there's absolutely no question. I really don't see the debate. Yes he makes mistakes (Baker), but they're more Dunne-esq mad mistakes rather than complete miscalculations of skill, ability and awareness. Clark just doesn't seem to be learning and I'm sorry, 30 minutes against Walsall without cocking up won't convince me otherwise. I mean, I can count at least three **** ups this pre season alone. His raw ability (of which he does have some) does not make up for that. He's 24 this season right? This being his 4th/5th year in an around the first team? Nah, not for me. Edited August 2, 2013 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Like the way Clark showed his critics today he can get a clean sheet. Excellent leadership quality too, patting teammates on the back when they scored, but not being too nancy about it. I'm sorry, I don't understand how this post can be a real, quantifiable opinion. I suppose he's shit statistically so may as well focus on intangible skills like back-patting-ability. Mental* *post not poster. That's an interesting observation. Maybe I am picking out the positives where I see them. I will admit his statistics last season were not impressive, although they were not as bad as some people like to make others believe. For example, his rate of error is less than some more established PL centre backs. However, last season was a transitional one for the manager and the players. It's a hard one to judge defenders on, especially, since they are judged mostly on goals conceded because they are less often in position to contribute to the attack. A striker can get credit in a losing team but rarely can a centre-back. My opinion is essentially that Clark will develop this year and it will be his breakout season. He may only start 10 games and be brought on as sub in about 20 but as long as Rep of Ireland are in contention for a place at the World Cup he will be one motivated SOB, and he ought to perform at his best. If not then I will change my opinion. Edited August 2, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 For me Baker has the strength, timing and composure that Clark lacks. How many times last season was Clark bullied, rolled off the ball etc and he is flat footed. Then there's all the personal errors. Baker is an emerging talent whereas Clark is going sideways, possibly backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 For me Baker has the strength, timing and composure that Clark lacks. How many times last season was Clark bullied, rolled off the ball etc and he is flat footed. Then there's all the personal errors. Baker is an emerging talent whereas Clark is going sideways, possibly backwards. Baker was rolled and beaten a few times too... Saurez, Ipswich's goal against us in the FA Cup, and as for the personal errors... what would the reaction be if Clark made this error not Baker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 The point you make is invalid. Baker has shown a lot more than Clark has and has had a lot less time and fewer opportunities to prove himself. Clark has actually gotten worse as time has gone on, has had plenty of opportunities to prove his worth and nail down a CB spot and seems to make one or two potentially costly mistakes per game. That own goal was unfortunate. Yes it was avoidable, but everyone makes mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 For me Baker has the strength, timing and composure that Clark lacks. How many times last season was Clark bullied, rolled off the ball etc and he is flat footed. Then there's all the personal errors. Baker is an emerging talent whereas Clark is going sideways, possibly backwards. Baker was rolled and beaten a few times too... Saurez, Ipswich's goal against us in the FA Cup, and as for the personal errors... what would the reaction be if Clark made this error not Baker? Baker showed massive character at Reading. After that howler he went on to have a storming game. A game that we won. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Yea when Clark has made a mistake its usually cost us the game. Baker made that mistake and absolutely bossed the rest of the game! So much courage after scoring an OG honker like that. Face it, Clark is definitely worse than Baker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Clark's error was against Man City, Baker's was against Reading. I'm not surprised we came back against Reading and stayed behind against Man City. Also, against Everton, Baker missed a header in the final moments vs Felliani when he scored to make it 3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Move over Mr Bannan I think we have a new scapegoat. You're right, he is absolutely class, never makes a mistake, never lets us down, never gives us reason to worry and doesn't need to up his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 For me Baker has the strength, timing and composure that Clark lacks. How many times last season was Clark bullied, rolled off the ball etc and he is flat footed. Then there's all the personal errors. Baker is an emerging talent whereas Clark is going sideways, possibly backwards. Baker was rolled and beaten a few times too... Saurez, Ipswich's goal against us in the FA Cup, and as for the personal errors... what would the reaction be if Clark made this error not Baker? Baker showed massive character at Reading. After that howler he went on to have a storming game. A game that we won. Yup and all that shows is that a young left footed player needs to work on his right foot. King of the gifs makes another pathetic statement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Clark's error was against Man City, Baker's was against Reading. I'm not surprised we came back against Reading and stayed behind against Man City. Also, against Everton, Baker missed a header in the final moments vs Felliani when he scored to make it 3-3. Wasn't that Vlaar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Clark's error was against Man City, Baker's was against Reading. I'm not surprised we came back against Reading and stayed behind against Man City. Also, against Everton, Baker missed a header in the final moments vs Felliani when he scored to make it 3-3. Wasn't that Vlaar ? Thought it was Baker but if you're not sure, I'm not confident enough to say you're wrong. Anyone else remember that goal? I remember Baker coming on as sub in 90th minute, then Everton scoring from a set piece soon after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Clark's error was against Man City, Baker's was against Reading. I'm not surprised we came back against Reading and stayed behind against Man City. Also, against Everton, Baker missed a header in the final moments vs Felliani when he scored to make it 3-3. The errors aren't comparable. Bakers was rotten timing aided by a naughty bobble, something that will happen to almost every defender on the planet at least once. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm sure even God put one in his own net. Clark's was him being **** stupid and he hasn't learned from it from what I can tell. He's been all over the shop since. Edited August 2, 2013 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Clark's error was against Man City, Baker's was against Reading. I'm not surprised we came back against Reading and stayed behind against Man City. Also, against Everton, Baker missed a header in the final moments vs Felliani when he scored to make it 3-3. Wasn't that Vlaar ? Thought it was Baker but if you're not sure, I'm not confident enough to say you're wrong. Anyone else remember that goal? I remember Baker coming on as sub in 90th minute, then Everton scoring from a set piece soon after. So Baker came on cold and was responsible for Fellaini scoring ? I'm pretty sure it was vlaar caught out but I'd need some verification to be sure as I wasn't at the game . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Clark is atrocious. How he got a new contract is beyond me. He is 24 now and it is just mistake after mistake after mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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