Barry Bannan

[vandaq]

glad this clearing in the woods isnt playing.

[Dodgyknees]

Good write up here

 

So, looking at the best crosser/passer in the league and as Moxley writes:

 

"I noticed - and it didn’t take the world’s sharpest football brain to work it out - that the Belgium international wins almost every challenge he makes in the air." - the exception to the rule are Bannan's high percentage of crosses?

 

"Not one in four, not one in two, not ‘most of them.’ I’ve seen all bar one of Villa’s home games this term - and a few away." - ok, we can deduce from this and the previous article in the Sun that Benteke does indeed win a majority of his battles in the air. (We'll ignore the % as we know from when you used this for Bannan's crossing, it can be flawed)

 

"And Benteke wins every single ball that’s thumped somewhere near him.

I have sat through entire matches this season watching him lose not once in the air." - the exception to this rule being Bannan's crosses and corners?

 

So, when Bannan does make a corner with no assist, you can be sure the reason these are so high is Benteke being able to win the ball from most angles - correct.

Why does Bannan have less assists than other players? - because his crossing is not into good, goalscoring areas and most are not where Benteke can score from. This is the only logic when you match up the stats. Bannan has a high percentage thanks to Benteke being a good reader of the game. Others have more assists because their crossing ability is of a higher standard, allowing Christian to turn his good reading (of usually average crosses) into more goals and a better attack pattern.

[KentVillan]

As someone who works as a statistician, I would make two points: first, that stats can tell you useful things about football players; second, that most football stats are too simplistic. For example, Con's points-per-game stat would be much more meaningful if it took into account the points-per-game scores of the players Bannan was playing with and against in each of those games. Even then, there are plenty of factors that would be missing. This is why we get real people to manage football teams, and not computers. This is also why I instinctively ignore the footballing opinions of anyone who obsessively plays Football Manager.

My view on Bannan is that he adds some balance on the left, which nobody else in the squad offers at the moment. He also shows glimpses of being quite a good passer. The downside is that his corners and free kicks this season have been absolute gash, and he's hardly left his mark on a game with his tackling. I don't know how that WhoScored website have decided he's a good corner taker, but use your eyes to see that it isn't true. Remember the Bradford games? Let's give him a chance, but you're kidding yourself if you think that underneath all the transparently bad performances lurks a statistically incredible player. Sometimes you just have to believe your eyes. Football isn't baseball.

 

You don't have to be a statistician to realise that the stats being posted on this thread are a load of tosh. You just need common sense and a neutral agenda.

 

Also, Bannan doesn't give balance on the left... he plays deep in the center, which is the main reason why we have leaked so many goals this season... no adequate cover for our defense.

 

It's no coincidence that we have looked a lot more solid at the back in the last couple of games, nor that Westwood has got more assists in these two games than our "playmaker" has all season.

 

UTV.

No, you missed my point. A lot of people are on here trashing "stats" as a meaningful way of judging players. I'm saying that they can be useful, just that they need to be calculated properly. I don't rate WhoScored - I believe one of their "weaknesses" for Benteke is "holding up the ball", which would suggest they need to go back to the drawing board.

As for where Bannan plays, he is nominally a deep lying midfielder, but I'm talking about where he actually stands and touches the ball - usually to the left. If we ever get a chance to watch him play for Villa again, you'll see what I mean.

[Skruff]

What is someone doing giving Bannan any praise whatsoever? Nobody is allowed to give him any credit, otherwise the Earth might topple out of its orbit and fall into a black hole.

It's not about giving Bannan credit. It's about you coming into this thread claiming that he's a great player when it's pretty clear to every one else that he's quite far away from that.

You've claimed that we've lost games because Bannan was left out. You've claimed that we'd take more points this season if he played every game. you've made comparisons(not directly) to Inesita and Xavi.

You choose stats that back up your argument, yet you completely ignore other stats or the facts about how the stats were derived. When people point out his weaknesses your response is that it's not in his job description.

You're being very dogmatic in the debate.

I can agree with you that Bannan is a good cross/corner taker. And that he's been instructed to do floated corners. Westwood does floated corners as well. Two of Bentekes goals has been from corners with a outwards swirl on the far post. 

He also have good crosses from deep, turning play to the other side. However, this does not make him a great or good player, it only makes him a good player at crossing the ball. I think it's fair to say thats he's a luxury player.

In the same way you claim that Delph's successful pass % is irrelevant because most of them are backward passes, one could argue to some extent that Bannans successfull cross% is irrelevant because none of the leads to goals.

[villa-revolution]

 

Tbf, every time we win shouldn't be a trigger to bash one of our players. What does it say about us as fans, that every time we win a game we bash a product of our own youth academy for the simple reason that he wasn't playing. I think we should talk about him when he next plays a game.

 

Which will hopefully be never

 

 

Seconded!

[Con]

The reason you guys are crazy, there are those amongst you who would give Bannan away on a free just to "get rid". Incredibly you have argued yourself into a position where you actually think he is a negative influence on the team.

 

A player who wins 33% games he starts and has a high point per game average, raises our possession %, and is the best crosser and corner taker in the PL, you would give away for nothing because he is a negative influence.

 

Tell me that's not an emotional opinion rather than one based on logic. You keep coming up with excuses why the stats are wrong because your negative view of Bannan is so unrealistically extreme that even one good thing about his play would make you feel you got him wrong.

[Dodgyknees]

Flawed.

Win % does not take into account extreme conditions, such as a Benteke having a good game or a Bennett having a bad game. If Benteke has a stormer, those around him have an increase in their win %

Stop being so one sided with 'facts' you're telling us a square piece of paper is cubed.

Secondly, the crosses, again flawed. Otherwise we isn't Hodgson lining up to get Shorey in the England team?

Thirdly, Sylla must have a pretty good win % but I'd never use that as an excuse for him to be in the team. His energy, tackling and usefulness on the ball is what I'd back him with.

[AstonMartin82]

A player who wins 33% games he starts and has a high point per game average, raises our possession %, and is the best crosser and corner taker in the PL, you would give away for nothing because he is a negative influence.

 

Within the space of a week you have gone from Bannan having "best points / game average", to "pretty much joint points / game average" to "high points / game average". This stat is so pointless it's unbelievable but it's pretty much the only thing you have left to try and defend the indefensible Bannan.

 

As to the best crosser and corner taker in the PL? lmao - you are so deluded it's unbelievable. I'm sure you don't actually believe this nonsense that you spout so how can you expect anyone else to?

 

You are in some way affiliated with Bannan. This is now clear as ice.

[Con]

Okay, so now anyone who says anything good must be "affiliated with Bannan"?

 

I do the same analysis in every thread. 

 

Check out my latest comment on Joe Bennett. Said something positive about him.

 

Will that single post result in a barrage of "you're an idiot" type post that will fill another two pages? Why not? Bannan hasn't even played a game recently, and yet for some reason people are still desperate to propagandise how bad they think he is.

[theboyangel]

IMO he's an ok player and a decent squad member, however he's currently only that and I don't see signs of further improvement.

 

If Westwood, Delph, El Ahmadi and now Sylla are above him in the pecking order in a midfield that we already know needs improving, what's the point of retaining him???

 

I'd personally sell him to free up space for a 'first team' centre midfielder.

 

Nothing against the lad, just don't think he's good enough to make a central midfield position his own at our club.

[benireduk]

Bannan hasn't even played a game recently, and yet for some reason people are still desperate to propagandise how bad they think he is.

So if Bannan is so good, why isn't he in the team then?

[AstonMartin82]

Okay, so now anyone who says anything good must be "affiliated with Bannan"?

 

No, but when you come on here and relentlessly try to convince people how one of the worst crossers in the Premier League is actually THE best crosser in the Premier League while being ignorant to all the reasons why the stats are invalid people are going to conclude that you are affiliated with him.

 

What you are trying to argue is far beyond the realms of realism. If you came to the thread and said he is possibly a little bit better than people give him credit for and in a year or two he might just make it as a Premier League player then people might respect that view point a little bit more. But to come on here, claim he is already the best player in the Premier League, claim that he is going to be joining a Champions League club one day soon and claim that if we don't play him it will relegate Villa when the fact of the matter is the opposite is true, then you are leaving yourself wide open for accusations.

[Con]

I'm open to absolutely any accusation when the accuser does not limit themselves to the facts.

 

Where have they done that before?

[Con]

 

Bannan hasn't even played a game recently, and yet for some reason people are still desperate to propagandise how bad they think he is.

So if Bannan is so good, why isn't he in the team then?

 

 

Recently I've not suggested he should be in the team. In fact, I specifically said I wouldn't start him for the Norwich match.

[PauloBarnesi]

I really enjoyed watching Bannan as a youth/reserve player. I was delighted when he made it to the first team, but he’s just never stamped his authority on games like he did when he was at youth level. What seemed easy to him at youth level will require some hard work at senior level, and to me he’s just never made that leap. Its sad, but it happens. For all parties involved a move a way would be the best bet.

[AstonMartin82]

I'm open to absolutely any accusation when the accuser does not limit themselves to the facts.

 

Where have they done that before?

 

So you stand by your claims that Bannan is the best corner taker in the Premier League even though he has no assists, he is the best crosser in the Premier League even though he has only 1 assist, is going to join a Champions League team within the next couple of years and that we are going to get relegated because he hasn't featured since that woeful performance he put in against Liverpool?

[Con]

I really enjoyed watching Bannan as a youth/reserve player. I was delighted when he made it to the first team, but he’s just never stamped his authority on games like he did when he was at youth level. What seemed easy to him at youth level will require some hard work at senior level, and to me he’s just never made that leap. Its sad, but it happens. For all parties involved a move a way would be the best bet.

 

He's got at least as much talent as Westwood, more in certain areas, but game time in a lower division does appear to trump game time in reserve league.

 

The new U21 league is intended to bridge the experience gap for the academy players but that came too late for him.

 

It's wrong to say he has "failed" though, because you don't post the stats he has done failing.

 

I would agree he hasn't bossed enough games as a playmaker, which is probably down to lack of experience.

 

There is a difference between set plays and within game plays. You don't need much experience to get set pieces right, but 64 first team (PL) games is not much experience for within game plays.

 

I'd guess it would be his choice to move. Like Lichaj, he is solid in many respects, too good to sell, but too good to stay.

[Big_John_10]

I think everyone will agree we've looked a completely different side since Newcastle. The last 12 games have seen a complete 180 degree turn in performances and results.

Bannan has played in 3 games during this superb period.

He's not needed and with Gardner back to full fitness and carruthers coming through will drop even further down the order at the club.

Can't wait for the day this clearing in the woods is **** off from the club.

[nick76]

I'd guess it would be his choice to move. Like Lichaj, he is solid in many respects, too good to sell, but too good to stay.

Bannan isn't too good to sell, it is wise to sell him for us and for him, shame we wouldn't get much for him probably a million. For him, we'll be the biggest club he ever plays for.

[Keyblade]

How can so many people be trolled for so long  .