Barry Bannan

[Con]

What's that got to do with anything? My point was that you'd said Walcott kept improving well into his 20swhere in reality he and Barry are the same age(ish) and yet Walcott is a far superior footballer.

No, my point - by referring to Walcott's pace - was that you are comparing different players.

Walcott could be played - and therefore gain experience - from a very young age because he had lots of pace.

Criticised for his inept use of the ball and poor finishing. Was worth his place in the team for his pace alone.

Now, Walcott is 23 and has 150+ Arsenal games behind him. All that experience, because he had pace from a young age.

I haven't put words into anyone's mouth. I didn't say you'd said he was at that level but you've compared him to Xavi on more than one occasion.

Not in ability. Go back and read what I wrote. Near page 150. You are putting words into my mouth if you say I'm comparing Bannan's ability to Xavi

Now who's putting words in peoples mouths? You keep bringing up Xavi, a Champions League winner. And for the record, I'm unsure about Gabby's role in the team but right now I think he's more of a threat and more valuable than Bannan.

Come on, this is silly. I made a point of saying I was not comparing Bannan to Xavi in ability.

Post #2979 I said

"He's not like Xavi in ability but in style of play Bannan is more like Xavi than other midfielders."

There you go. Now I don't want to hear you repeat the claim I think Bannan is the "New Xavi" again.

How much is Juan Mata worth if Joe Allen is £15m. £40m+.

Mata is the New Xavi. I think Bannan is possibly better than Joe Allen.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Con

[TrentVilla]

Who says Joe Allen is worth £15m? Just because Liverpool paid it doesn't mean he is worth it or are you saying that Andy Carroll is worth £35m or that Jordan Henderson is worth somewhere in the region of £16-£20m or Aquilani in the region of £17m? Do you really need me to keep going?

The price a club pay for a player means nothing other than it is the price the owning club were prepared to part with the player for and the it is the price the buying club were prepared to pay. It doesn't mean that said player is worth that price in the transfer market.

I think it is plainly obvious that Joe Allen isn't a £15m player in the wider context of the market. Given that Swansea had lost their manager to Liverpool and that manager is supposed to have promised not to go after his old players, it is hardly surprising that in order to land the player they had to pay over the odds.

So ca we drop this nonsense about how much Joe Allen cost now please? It really has **** all to do with Bannan or his supposed abilities and has no barring at all on his value, either in terms of money or worth to our team.

[Tayls]

Joe Allen isn't worth 15million. Liverpool paid that because Rodgers really wanted him at Liverpool. He trusted him, and probably helped him develop at Swansea and wanted to continue the relationship. Swansea knew this, Rodgers was their former manager who they probably didn't want to sell to anyway. The price was automatically going to be higher than his actual worth.

Bannan is £4mill - maximum.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Tayls

[sutherland]

I'd agree that Bannan is the best midfielder we currently have.

In fact, here's today's quiz - put the following in order of best:

Albrighton

Bannan

Delph

El Ahmadi

Gardner

Holman

Ireland

Makoun

N'Zogbia

Westwood

Depressing isn't it?

Very much so... they wouldnt even get in the likes of stoke, swansea, albion, sunderland, fulham, qpr, norwich ect-ect first eleven!

[Tayls]

Bannan is bottom of that list along with Makoun.

[KjParton]

Put down the bottle mate

sorry

[darrenm]

I personally have no real affinity with Bannan like I have with players before, but I like him as a footballer.

He's one of the most naturally gifted players in our team. He's another slightly short left-footed natural football player and I don't think it's unfair to compare him with Charlie Adam.

When he started to break through for us and he was playing balls like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbgmPsJOWrs#t=70s I thought he was going only going one place, Old Trafford. At the time Darren Fletcher was comparing him to Xavi and Iniesta http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/barry-bannan-can-be-scotlands-version-1075885 , and while this seems a bit silly now, that's the reputation he was getting.

He hasn't done much to improve during the last 2 years, but neither has anyone else still at the Villa. You could say we've really stunted his development by being in 2 relegation scraps with the club's best players sold. I think that if we were to start improving you'd really see Barry start to do some fantastic stuff for us. I think the same would happen if he went somewhere else. You'd realise just how good he has the potential to be.

I also think that you don't really appreciate his ability until you see him close up at a game. Inch-perfect 40 yard balls with the right amount of backspin to drop into a runner's path without breaking their stride aren't uncommon, yet you sometimes can't appreciate them on a stream or TV.

[NurembergVillan]

Not in ability. Go back and read what I wrote. Near page 150. You are putting words into my mouth if you say I'm comparing Bannan's ability to Xavi...

...There you go. Now I don't want to hear you repeat the claim I think Bannan is the "New Xavi" again.

I haven't. Not once. Find it, quote me and I'll apologise.

But whilst we're suggesting going back and reading what other people have written -

I didn't say you'd said he was at that level but you've compared him to Xavi on more than one occasion.

You didn't answer my other questions regarding your suggestions that people only want 6' midfielders or WWE wrestlers. Where did you get that from?

Whilst your point may be that "He's not like Xavi in ability but in style of play Bannan is more like Xavi than other midfielders", mine is that I don't believe this to be the case at all. The only thing I can see that they have in common is that they're both small and play in dark red and blue shirts.

I think in order to have a style of play like Xavi you need to have an ability level approaching his. If you haven't then you can't play like him.

In terms of Joe Allen, he was superb for Swansea last season. He grabbed games by the scruff of the neck and dictated play. I've never seen Bannan do that for the Villa first team. He's (as far as I'm aware) not a set a goal up for us yet, at least not this season and he's only scored once from a penalty. His set pieces are poor, whatever you may believe you've heard commentators say (I've certainly not heard them mention how good his set pieces are), to the point that the only corner we've scored from this season was taken by Ashley Westwood against Reading, after a string of poor ones from Bannan.

I hope he proves me wrong, I really do. I'd love to see him become the player you seem to believe he can be. I just don't see it, and haven't since he left the reserve team.

[Richard]

I'm hoping bannan doesn't play much after January

[Demitri_C]

Bannan the best midfielder we have? I think you have new years day mixed up with april fools

[OutByEaster?]

Bannan the best midfielder we have? I think you have new years day mixed up with april fools

I think it's more than possible to make that argument - it's basically between him and Westwood.

[NurembergVillan]

Whilst a different type of player, I think Herd is a better midfielder than Bannan.

[OutByEaster?]

He's certainly different. I think Herd, Westwood and Bannan would be our best combination at the moment, one to get it, one to keep it and one to use it. For me Bannan wins through as a better footballer than Herd, they can both do things that the other can't do, but I think Bannans are harder.

[Con]

Bannan crossed for the corner that lead to the penalty. Benteke's header was cleared off the line, Weimann picked it up and was fouled. That goal from the penalty proved vital in the end.

The records of our midfielders -

Bannan W4 D6 L7 = 18 points

Westwood W4 D4 L4 = 16 points

Ireland W3 D2 L7 = 11 points

Delph W1 D5 L4 = 8 points

El Ahmadi W1 D5 L6 = 8 points

I haven't. Not once. Find it, quote me and I'll apologise.

#3058

"I didn't say you'd said he was at that level but you've compared him to Xavi on more than one occasion."

You wrongly suggested here I am comparing his ability to Xavi. The word "level" is synonymous with "ability" or "level of ability" here.

Edit: Actually, I'm completely misreading your sentence. Sorry. However, I don't know what you're saying if you are agreeing I'm not comparing his ability to Xavi.

#3059

"I think the regular mentions of global superstars and fabricated quotes about what others expect of in a midfielder, though, are muddying how your point is coming across."

I said clearly that I was not comparing Bannan's ability to Xavi who is one of the "global superstars" you are referring to here.

But whilst we're suggesting going back and reading what other people have written -

You didn't answer my other questions regarding your suggestions that people only want 6' midfielders or WWE wrestlers. Where did you get that from?

I didn't say anyone in particular had suggested this specifically.

My point was that criticisms often began from the starting point he was only 5'7" which, frankly, is a ridiculous criticism of a footballer because many of the world's current and previous greatest footballers have been this height - and shorter.

I'm not comparing Bannan to the world's greatest footballers in any way other than height.

My reference to a team of Harlem Globetrotters and Wrestling stars was, I thought, a lively way to present the opposing argument. Yes, it is a caricature but so is use of the word "midget" to describe Bannan and others of his height. You used that word in post #3059.

Whilst your point may be that "He's not like Xavi in ability but in style of play Bannan is more like Xavi than other midfielders", mine is that I don't believe this to be the case at all. The only thing I can see that they have in common is that they're both small and play in dark red and blue shirts.

I think in order to have a style of play like Xavi you need to have an ability level approaching his. If you haven't then you can't play like him.

I have to disagree with that. My own style of play is more like Xavi that of Crouch, Van Persie or Walcott.

As soon as I say that you get an idea what I'm like, although I am taller than Bannan.

In terms of Joe Allen, he was superb for Swansea last season. He grabbed games by the scruff of the neck and dictated play.

Joe Allen started in the little pool, built up his confidence and experience, and graduated to the big pool.

Bannan started at the bigger club in the higher division: he was thrown in at the deep end.

It's not possible to directly compare the two due to differences in experience.

I've never seen Bannan do that for the Villa first team. He's (as far as I'm aware) not a set a goal up for us yet, at least not this season and he's only scored once from a penalty. His set pieces are poor, whatever you may believe you've heard commentators say (I've certainly not heard them mention how good his set pieces are), to the point that the only corner we've scored from this season was taken by Ashley Westwood against Reading, after a string of poor ones from Bannan.

He delivered an excellent corner to Benteke today. I'm surprised you've not heard pundits mention his set piece taking ability.

I hope he proves me wrong, I really do. I'd love to see him become the player you seem to believe he can be. I just don't see it, and haven't since he left the reserve team.

I haven't seen him in the reserves. All I have to compare him to is other players. He shows a spark, needs more experience and consistency. He needs to be more aggressive and the team around him needs to play better.

Right now my position is Bannan is better than, so we need to play him. Criticisms are justified and is how players improve but some criticisms are simply not well thought out, and we need a corrective to those.

Edit 2: To respond to post below, Lichaj had a positive goal difference until the Wigan game. After the Wigan game he is -2, which is still the best record. He was played in all 4 victories. Solid defender.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Con

[dudevillaisnice]

These "records" are rubbish, Lichaj was part of the 3-0 defeat against Wigan yet apparently he is our best fullback with positive goal difference according to you.. what these stats don't tell you was he was just as bad everyone on that pitch.

He delivered an excellent corner to Benteke today.

One corner out of 4356456356534 corners then.. his floated corners can go with him do your "stats" tell you they were floated and are terrible?

Means absolutely nothing.. watch the game and you'll understand what most people say about Bannan.

Edited January 1, 2013 by dudevillaisnice

[dudevillaisnice]

the team around him needs to play better.

ah yes one of the myths- the player is far too good for the team.

Similar to Ireland and not any other player being on the same "wavelength".

[TrentVilla]

Joe Allen started in the little pool, built up his confidence and experience, and graduated to the big pool.

Bannan started at the bigger club in the higher division: he was thrown in at the deep end.

It's not possible to directly compare the two due to differences in experience.

Wasn't it you that raised the comparison to Allen?

[PompeyVillan]

Bannan is one of our best midfielders, which is an indication of the lack of quality we have in the squad unfortunately.

I don't get on Barry's back because he works really hard for us, and he tries really hard to be a leader on the pitch which is commendable, but we could do with seeing him to continue to develop. He's a trier.

He and Westwood formed a decent partnership for a few games. I'd like to see Herd (or another DCM) in there with them at some point, I think that could be a profitable combination.

[omariqy]

Off to Forest hopefully. Good championship player imo

[Con]

Wasn't it you that raised the comparison to Allen?

Yes.

Then another poster made the point about Allen playing well for Swansea last season, while Bannan did not play nearly as well for Villa. Conclusion being, Allen is worth £15 million (in my opinion, though some think Allen is not worth that much), Bannan is not.

That was last season though.

Since then we've had the Liverpool game when Bannan got the better of Allen in a 1-3 win, and this season we've had Allen playing at a big club that isn't built around him - no Leon Britton as side-kick, which is a different challenge.

We should now make a fresh comparison, and that IMO suggests Bannan is not far away at all.

Bannan is one of our best midfielders, which is an indication of the lack of quality we have in the squad unfortunately.

I don't get on Barry's back because he works really hard for us, and he tries really hard to be a leader on the pitch which is commendable, but we could do with seeing him to continue to develop. He's a trier.

He and Westwood formed a decent partnership for a few games. I'd like to see Herd (or another DCM) in there with them at some point, I think that could be a profitable combination.

Interesting point - Bannan does have leadership skills. He waves his arms and points where he thinks the ball should go... always seems to be aware of the action around him.

I'm not saying Bannan is a great leader and captain material. I don't think he should be captain. (I shouldn't have to say that but I thought I better).