Bolitics The New Condem Government

[bickster]

They decide to make stamp duty fairer and in so doing create another housing bubble. Its going to make houses even more unaffordable for your average Joe, they are creating generations of people who will never own their own home.

I kind of agree with your post, but the thing about the bit quoted is that I find it hard to criticise them for, as you say, "making something fairer". A more graduated variation of stamp duty, where the more the house costs, the more % tax paid on it goes up doesn't seem like an evil thing to do. I kind of think that most normal people moving from one normal house to the next would appreciate paying less stamp duty, while rich folk moving to new mansions pay more.

 

You might be right, and Estate agents might just put up the price of the houses to rake more cash in for sellers and themselves (or they might not). But the move in itself I don't think will result in the overall "cost" of buying a house going up.

In the long term if the country can be weened away from treating houses as money/assets, then it might be a good thing.

 

I still loathe them mind. But just not for the above reason.

Is it fairer? Yes it probably is. Is this the time and place to make such a move? IMO no it really isn't, its a cynical attempt to boost the housing market to make their core vote feel good about sitting on their pile. Its an extremely short term fix as shortly after houses start to sell again the prices will begin to rise. A saving will be made by the lucky few that happen to be moving in the first few months of the measure being introduced. Six months down the line those savings will already be absorbed in the new house price valuations. House prices will be higher and the stamp duty due on those houses will obviously then be higher too, its a short term con job.

[CVByrne]

No a Champagne Socialist is a term used to call someone hypocritical for professing socialism but living a lavish lifestyle. 

 

I just have opinions that are both considered left and right. I don't concern myself with how that needs to fit in with how others want to label me. 

[snowychap]

Love how I'm somehow evil for asking questions haha.

Who has called you that?

I certainly don't think you're 'evil' so you should stop with this straw man rubbish.

But as I work in the City, I cannot have an opinion that is anything but lower taxes, cut spending etc.. as the view has to be if you earn a high wage, or work in financial sector you have to be grouped together as the bad guys

That's utter tosh. Indeed, it's an incredibly stupid point of view to suggest that earning a high wage or having wealth somehow debars people from holding a particular point of view.

It's the kind of thing that has accusations of 'champagne socialist' or hypocrite being thrown about (see Russell Brand for example).

People don't have to wear a hair shirt to hold particular views.

If you are referring to my post then I was simply questioning your reference points for the opinion that you stated about the UK economy:

I think the economy is going well in the UK.

I disagreed with your assessment as it isn't what I see/know (in terms of people trying to exist on a very low income or people looking at the job market in this area or a small business trying to make ends meet or someone having to work in a minimum wage job to top up her pension or people struggling in residential care due to resource cuts and so on). Edited December 5, 2014 by snowychap

[bickster]

How do you get house prices to a lower level?

Build much more publicly owned housing. Not "social housing" i.e. housing trusts etc proper local authority owned housing and I mean on a massive scale, with people given assured long term tenancies to allow them the security of being in their own home.

In other words reverse the Thatcherite policy of selling council houses. If more council houses existed, less property would be taken up by private landlords. If investors stopped buying houses to let them out, prices in that sector would fall due to lower demand and then people could afford to by those properties. there's nothing wrong with the right to buy those homes either as long as the money received from those sales is ring fenced and used to provide yet more council owned housing, something that Thatcher specifically outlawed from the sale of the houses.

The Witch started all this nonsense

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I think we should skip ahead a few centuries and start building Megatowers.

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

How do you get house prices to a lower level?

Build much more publicly owned housing. Not "social housing" i.e. housing trusts etc proper local authority owned housing and I mean on a massive scale, with people given assured long term tenancies to allow them the security of being in their own home.

In other words reverse the Thatcherite policy of selling council houses. If more council houses existed, less property would be taken up by private landlords. If investors stopped buying houses to let them out, prices in that sector would fall due to lower demand and then people could afford to by those properties. there's nothing wrong with the right to buy those homes either as long as the money received from those sales is ring fenced and used to provide yet more council owned housing, something that Thatcher specifically outlawed from the sale of the houses.

The Witch started all this nonsense

 

Most of the problems we face today have their roots in the witch's policies

Edited December 5, 2014 by mockingbird_franklin

[chrisp65]

Love how I'm somehow evil for asking questions haha. No care given to the fact I am all for higher taxation to be spent on public services. That these tax breaks for buying expensive property in my view is essentially political corruption. 

 

My problem with the extreme left is that I worked my ass off to get to where I am now. I grew up in 1980's Ireland in Northside Dublin which was poorer than almost anything people experience now. But I just applied myself and ended up where I am through hard work and importantly free 3rd level education payed for by the state

 

I am all for many things that would be very "socialist" to put a label on an opinion. Three things,

 

1) Health, quality healthcare is a human right and it should be funded by taxation. 

2) Free 3rd level education, the best people should have no barriers to getting to the best universities. 

3) State pension, nothing angers me more than the thought that our elders might be living in poverty.

 

 

 

nah, nobody thinks you're evil, far from it and personally I agree with stacks of your opinions, so they must be excellent opinions!

 

We're all entitled to pitch in with our views and like everyone, you, me and all the others don't have a one party tick list of absolute agreement on all topics.

 

I find some of these conversations really quite informative actually, but they definitely need multiple viewpoints to be chipped in.

 

With ref your remark on where you grew up and the 'relative' poverty people experience today, that is really quite true of a lot of people. I think a few of us in this thread are at the point where we can give the 'when I were a lad' monologue so enjoyed by the yoof. In our house we have a drawer full of candles and matches ffs, just in case there's another winter of discontent. Plus an old school attitude to credit (except for houses and cars strangely, where we have a more modern approach to what we can afford). But yes it's a given that the poor of today are not as poor as the ones when we were kids. They are relatively worse off when measured against today's well off, but something tells me that's a bogus measure. Once you're safe, warm, fed and clothed the rest is just optional gravy and jam. 

 

Once we have everyone that wants to contribute safe, warm etc., then and only then can we consider tax breaks for skiing holidays for the under 12's. 

[CVByrne]

Stability in house prices in Europe (ie Germany, France, Belgium) has been due to strong regulation and pension funds owning large amounts of property as the rental income is all they are after to pay out their annuity. Also the cultural difference is evident, in the British Isles we have a stronger cultural desire to own a home. Rampant House price inflation drives the fear of owning a home becoming unaffordble if people wait. 

 

What nobody seems to question here is if owning a home is such a necessity. Or if we had strong regulation and the ability to rent a home for a decade without any fear of massive rates increase or a landlord evicting. 

 

Maybe it would be a strong move if the Government gave incentives for pension funds to own large amounts of property if conforming to tight regulation of rates etc..

[colhint]

No a Champagne Socialist is a term used to call someone hypocritical for professing socialism but living a lavish lifestyle. 

 

I just have opinions that are both considered left and right. I don't concern myself with how that needs to fit in with how others want to label me. 

 

I was only jesting you cheeky monkey

[chrisp65]

This is clearly where I need a bit of old fashioned 'political re education'.

 

My idea of my form of socialism is the opportunity to drink champagne for everyone. I'm not overly interested in warm flat beer and sliced white bread sandwiches. Which leads me to suspect I might have morphed over the years from militant to Blairite. But without the blood lust, obvs.

 

Come to think of it, I'm off out to a classical music concert tonight and currently considering where to park the merc and where to have dinner....hmmm. I shall use Christmas to have a word with myself.

[Risso]

Stability in house prices in Europe (ie Germany, France, Belgium) has been due to strong regulation and pension funds owning large amounts of property as the rental income is all they are after to pay out their annuity. Also the cultural difference is evident, in the British Isles we have a stronger cultural desire to own a home. Rampant House price inflation drives the fear of owning a home becoming unaffordble if people wait. 

 

What nobody seems to question here is if owning a home is such a necessity. Or if we had strong regulation and the ability to rent a home for a decade without any fear of massive rates increase or a landlord evicting. 

 

Maybe it would be a strong move if the Government gave incentives for pension funds to own large amounts of property if conforming to tight regulation of rates etc..

 

I think the UK's home ownership rate at about 2/3 of the population is amongst the lowest in Europe.  It's higher than Germany and France from memory, but lower than a lot of other countries.

[bickster]

Stability in house prices in Europe (ie Germany, France, Belgium) has been due to strong regulation and pension funds owning large amounts of property as the rental income is all they are after to pay out their annuity. Also the cultural difference is evident, in the British Isles we have a stronger cultural desire to own a home. Rampant House price inflation drives the fear of owning a home becoming unaffordble if people wait. 

 

What nobody seems to question here is if owning a home is such a necessity. Or if we had strong regulation and the ability to rent a home for a decade without any fear of massive rates increase or a landlord evicting. 

 

Maybe it would be a strong move if the Government gave incentives for pension funds to own large amounts of property if conforming to tight regulation of rates etc..

 

I think the UK's home ownership rate at about 2/3 of the population is amongst the lowest in Europe.  It's higher than Germany and France from memory, but lower than a lot of other countries.

Connor's statement and yours don't appear to have a connection unless I'm missing something.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

Stability in house prices in Europe (ie Germany, France, Belgium) has been due to strong regulation and pension funds owning large amounts of property as the rental income is all they are after to pay out their annuity. Also the cultural difference is evident, in the British Isles we have a stronger cultural desire to own a home. Rampant House price inflation drives the fear of owning a home becoming unaffordble if people wait. 

 

What nobody seems to question here is if owning a home is such a necessity. Or if we had strong regulation and the ability to rent a home for a decade without any fear of massive rates increase or a landlord evicting. 

 

Maybe it would be a strong move if the Government gave incentives for pension funds to own large amounts of property if conforming to tight regulation of rates etc..

 

I think the UK's home ownership rate at about 2/3 of the population is amongst the lowest in Europe.  It's higher than Germany and France from memory, but lower than a lot of other countries.

 

 

According to Wiki the UK (66.7) has a higher rate than Germany (53.3) and France (63.7).

 

But I was surprised to find that globally the UK home-ownership rate is relatively low by comparison.

 

I had always thought it was particularly high.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

When did those stats come out?

 

At a guess I'd say the numbers of 20-30 somethings buying houses has decreased considerably & has probably effected that statistic.

[Risso]

 

 

Stability in house prices in Europe (ie Germany, France, Belgium) has been due to strong regulation and pension funds owning large amounts of property as the rental income is all they are after to pay out their annuity. Also the cultural difference is evident, in the British Isles we have a stronger cultural desire to own a home. Rampant House price inflation drives the fear of owning a home becoming unaffordble if people wait. 

 

What nobody seems to question here is if owning a home is such a necessity. Or if we had strong regulation and the ability to rent a home for a decade without any fear of massive rates increase or a landlord evicting. 

 

Maybe it would be a strong move if the Government gave incentives for pension funds to own large amounts of property if conforming to tight regulation of rates etc..

 

I think the UK's home ownership rate at about 2/3 of the population is amongst the lowest in Europe.  It's higher than Germany and France from memory, but lower than a lot of other countries.

 

Connor's statement and yours don't appear to have a connection unless I'm missing something.

 

 

He asked if owning a home is a necessity.  I replied with a bit of data about comparable home ownership data in Europe.  I wasn't making a point as such, just thought it was interesting that half of people in Germany think it's a perfectly acceptable lifestyle choice to rent rather than buy.

[omariqy]

Important to note that renting in those countries is much cheaper relative to mortgage repayments when compared to the UK.  In London your rent is pretty much the same as the equivalent mortgage payment.

[chrisp65]

that's interesting on rent vs mortgage costs

 

other than the deposit problem, most definitely cheaper here in Vale of Glam to pay mortgage than to rent - hence the number of people still buying to rent which I'd presumed was something that died 6 years ago

 

so those with cap can get a mortgage, buy a house and still be guaranteed higher rent than mortgage payments

 

the 3 houses opposite mine are all paying £200 a month more to rent than the cost to buy - as ever, that extra is stopping them saving for a deposit

 

I don't think I'm talking rubbish, i'm sure that's the case - even funnier the council just unilaterally decided to give them a free disabled parking space so now they're paying more and can't park - I just stand in the garden on weekends giving them the middle finger and pointing at my parking space and waving tenners at them

[blandy]

If the crowds of people shopping in Manchester this week are anything to go by, there are people up there who aren't exactly on the bread line.

So the Gov't is to blame for the lack of queues at the baker's in Manchester?

 

No dough, see

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

I think the economy is going well in the UK.

Is it?

Is it going well for quants in London?

Or is it going well for 'the City' that is still hugely benefiting from the cheap dollar of QE, FFL and so on?

Or is it going well for the south east of the country that is still being well fuelled by a property price boom?

How much experience of the UK economy outside of the square mile do you actually have, Conor?

If the crowds of people shopping in Manchester this week are anything to go by, there are people up there who aren't exactly on the bread line.

 

 

There is too much emphasis on the 1% which conveniently avoids the fact that many of us comfortably make it into the global top 10%.

 

The average global income is $1200 (£770) and the average in the UK is $40 000 (£26 000).

 

It seems likely that to the global poor most of us are just as guilty of greed and selfishness.

 

Perhaps pointing the finger at the 1% is purposely designed to deflect scrutiny from our own guilty participation in the same unfair system?

[villaajax]

Is that the global average income for developed countries or does it include 3rd World countries and countries that make use of sweatshops?