AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Liverpool and Arsenal have finished in the top four every year since 2005 but neither have won a trophy since then, and these are top sides who we're trying to match. That's because Liverpool and Arsenal are in positions where they try and challenge for the title therefore sacrafice League Cup and also weaken teams in the Fa Cup, if Liverpool and Arsenal really wanted to make finals of these cups, I'm sure they would of done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Liverpool and Arsenal have finished in the top four every year since 2005 but neither have won a trophy since then, and these are top sides who we're trying to match. That's because Liverpool and Arsenal are in positions where they try and challenge for the title therefore sacrafice League Cup and also weaken teams in the Fa Cup, if Liverpool and Arsenal really wanted to make finals of these cups, I'm sure they would of done so. So if we were to finish fourth, as it would be expecting a lot to immediately challenge for either the title or champions League, do we just accept not winning anything or do we go for the domestic cups? One of which we're in with a reasonable chance of winning now, without claiming fourth. Regardless of the importance they place on different trophy's Liverpool and Arsenal have won nothing since 2005. Not the League, Champions League or domestic cups. Finishing fourth is not a guarantee of silverware in the future. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I've just watched a recording of last nights game and interestingly Dion Dublin was asked this same question. Without hesitation he said he'd rather win the League cup. Players want to win medals and trophys. Don't get me wrong fourth would be a great achievement but winning the League cup means Aston Villa are winners again not nearly men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCrich82 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd have to go for 5th and a cup, personally i dont think we're ready for Champions league. %th and a trophy in the cabinet is still great progress on last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 30, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd probably go for the trophy and continue building the side so once we get 4th, we'll be in a better position to make sure we compete long term in that position. How does winning a trophy put you in a better position to compete long term? I see your points and agree that finishing 4th doesn't automatically give you CL football.. But I would have thought that finishing 4th would attract a higher class of player (not a Torres or a Rooney but someone who has the potential to be one) than winning the League Cup would.. I didn't say winning a trophy would put us in a better position to compete long term. I said that given the chances of failure with 4th (we're not that standard quite yet imo) getting the trophy and carrying on building might serve us better. I'd be happy with 4th, no doubt, but I suspect unless we had a miraculous summer afterwards we'd not be there long. We'd not a couple of quality additions to come in and work immediately to make us really competitive at that standard of side, which I don't think would happen. But if we do that rising in standard over a couple of seasons gradually we might see better results as we grow as a side. Evolution works better than evolution, look at Citeh for some proof. So, if we were to finish 5th and got a trophy we could carry on the upward incline, we'd have something to show for our efforts which might tempt anyone who feels like leaving for bigger things that they might see success here anyway, and we'd not face the massive issues of bringing a lot of important, high class players in 1 go and expecting it to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd rather have 4th, as that is proper progress for the club and would help us step up a level in both kudos and attracting better players. Champs League, love it or hate it, is the only game in town. You can keep the "Europa League". That's a waste of time and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Liverpool and Arsenal have finished in the top four every year since 2005 but neither have won a trophy since then, and these are top sides who we're trying to match. That's because Liverpool and Arsenal are in positions where they try and challenge for the title therefore sacrafice League Cup and also weaken teams in the Fa Cup, if Liverpool and Arsenal really wanted to make finals of these cups, I'm sure they would of done so. So if we were to finish fourth, as it would be expecting a lot to immediately challenge for either the title or champions League, do we just accept not winning anything or do we go for the domestic cups? One of which we're in with a reasonable chance of winning now, without claiming fourth. Regardless of the importance they place on different trophy's Liverpool and Arsenal have won nothing since 2005. Not the League, Champions League or domestic cups. Finishing fourth is not a guarantee of silverware in the future. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I've just watched a recording of last nights game and interestingly Dion Dublin was asked this same question. Without hesitation he said he'd rather win the League cup. Players want to win medals and trophys. Don't get me wrong fourth would be a great achievement but winning the League cup means Aston Villa are winners again not nearly men. Basically. I want to See Villa in the future competing on all levels, winning regular trophies in my lifetime, in order to do that, we will have to get into the champions league, if we do this regularly enough, it will mean our quality of players will get better and the team naturally will be better and naturally cups, trophies and everything with being a dominant force comes with it. Look at the years between Man United winning cups/finals, Chelsea winning cups/finals, Liverpool cups/finals, Arsenal cups/finals and compare it to teams outside the top 4. I don't want to be watching Villa finish 5th-8th every year winning a domestic cup every 6/7 years or longer, I want Villa to become the best club in England somewhere in the future, 3 years from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now, in order to that we either need a top 4 finish or some owners like Man City have which means they have the money to attract most players they want. I want Villa to be competing with the big boys on a tuesday/wednesday night, Villa park rocking as a team such as Real Madrid come etc...that's my dream of Villa. I've not experience Villa success like this in my lifetime, I want us to do it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 30, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2009 It's funny, reading AVFC POB's post above made me think for a moment what I want to see most for Villa. I want to see us compete in the CL, yes, butI;m curiously not that bothered about winning it. I mean it'd be great and everything, absolutely brilliant, but what I want to see Villa do more than anything is to take the league again. And to my mind the money from the CL is what's needed for that. For me, the CL is a means to a different end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Champs League, love it or hate it, is the only game in town. Yes, I've heard Liverpool fans saying that every year. You can keep the "Europa League". That's a waste of time and energy. Yes, I've heard Liverpool fans saying that every year. Until this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Chindie I agree, I didn't mention in the post, although did touch on (seeing Villa the best England) in terms of celebrating a 38 game success rather than just 6 games, some even against lower opposition. To do this, we need to get Champions League, it doesn't guarentee anything, however it gives you the chance to progress more than winning a cup does, so the sooner the better for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Basically. I want to See Villa in the future competing on all levels, winning regular trophies in my lifetime, in order to do that, we will have to get into the champions league, if we do this regularly enough, it will mean our quality of players will get better and the team naturally will be better and naturally cups, trophies and everything with being a dominant force comes with it. Look at the years between Man United winning cups/finals, Chelsea winning cups/finals, Liverpool cups/finals, Arsenal cups/finals and compare it to teams outside the top 4. I don't want to be watching Villa finish 5th-8th every year winning a domestic cup every 6/7 years or longer, I want Villa to become the best club in England somewhere in the future, 3 years from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now, in order to that we either need a top 4 finish or some owners like Man City have which means they have the money to attract most players they want. I want Villa to be competing with the big boys on a tuesday/wednesday night, Villa park rocking as a team such as Real Madrid come etc...that's my dream of Villa. I've not experience Villa success like this in my lifetime, I want us to do it, I want the same things. I've been lucky enough to see Villa win League Cups, and League Championship and the European Cup ..... and I want more. All I'm saying is finishing fourth this season guarantees nothing. Not even Champions League football next season. Winning a trophy will give the players a taste for success and that should not be undervalued. Of course the really stupid thing is that us winning the League Cup doesn't preclude us from finishing fourth. In fact the boost it'll give the club and players as we approach the sharp end of the season means it could well be a big help in us finishing in fourth rather than an hinderance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 For me I would prefer winning a trophy. Even though 4th would be great. The main reason behind my decision is that I don't think we are ready, for the quality or the amount of games that you have to play in the champs league. We play a very British style of football which although can make teams anxious and force them into mistakes, can easily be passed around by quality teams (as Arsenal who play a European style showed). Could you honestly see us getting a result against the like of Barca? For me winning a trophy this seasin would show how we have progressed, which would hopefully lead to 2/3 quality players added to the squad in the summer. Then next season hopefully, we would then get into the top 4 and win another trophy, so that a further 2/3 players would be added to the squad the following season. Then we would be ready for the competition rigours of the champions league. Remember it is a marathon not a sprint and MON said he had the 5 yr plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 4th spot for me, that would show a significant move forward. Ok we havent won a trophy since 96, but i feel a top 4 finish would mean alot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoppy1987 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'd love to finish 4th ideally but either would be welcome. I firmly believe we can mix it up with the top teams this year we just need the team to show some belief when the Richard III hits the fan, for example two defeats to good teams. There is no reason we cannot achieve both feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 4th, although for years ive been saying 5th and a cup, i got a feeling that someone like plop will drop out, but if city get in there then it will just be another big 4 for the next decade, thanks to the bollocks that is the champions league's money how much do you want to bet that when we get there the FA will finally decide that the cash creates an unfair advantage and changes its distribution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'm hoping all of the people saying they would rather have fourth place aren't going to start moaning if we don't finish in the top four. It isn't easy to break into and it still could take a while longer until we do break into it. Let's not forget how far we have come. Top six should be expected, with perhaps a lowest position of seventh. Anywhere below that is simply not good enough, although even seventh would be pushing it. Top four may well be out of our grasp still. The LC isn't though and I just hope that MON and the players want it bad enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 For me I would prefer winning a trophy. Even though 4th would be great. The main reason behind my decision is that I don't think we are ready, for the quality or the amount of games that you have to play in the champs league. We play a very British style of football which although can make teams anxious and force them into mistakes, can easily be passed around by quality teams (as Arsenal who play a European style showed). Could you honestly see us getting a result against the like of Barca? For me winning a trophy this seasin would show how we have progressed, which would hopefully lead to 2/3 quality players added to the squad in the summer. Then next season hopefully, we would then get into the top 4 and win another trophy, so that a further 2/3 players would be added to the squad the following season. Then we would be ready for the competition rigours of the champions league. Remember it is a marathon not a sprint and MON said he had the 5 yr plan... Winners in the last ten years outside the top four Leicester Blackburn Middlesborough Spurs Other finalists in the last ten years outside the top four Tranmere Blose Spurs Bolton Wigan The above just tells me that it isnt a sign of progression, it's not even a cup respected and doesnt show you have progressed. Add to that the teams we have played to get to the Semi's, hardly tough was it. Don't get me wrong I want to win it but a sign of progression to me is fourth place. It shows we have played everybody and all want to do as well as possible in the league and you have become the fourth most successful that season over 38 games. Surely that is more progession that a few easy games in a competition that the big boys don't really take seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 i think the cup simply because it could go belly up and we dont even qualify for champions league. if question was 3rd or 5th and league cup that would be more difficult to answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 For me winning a trophy this seasin would show how we have progressed, which would hopefully lead to 2/3 quality players added to the squad in the summer. I don't believe that winning the League Cup will attract any players of a higher quality than our current 11. Win the League Cup and yes - we would probably be able to buy another Warnock/ Downing/ Dunne.. (not taking anything away from their quality, they're solid players) But finish 4th and you have the slightest possibility of qualifying for the CL. This would attrack a higher quality of player - Like I've said - not a Torres, not a Drogba... but an up and coming player/ proven CL player pushing 30 etc.. (finishing 4th would give us all the possibilities that the League Cup gives us, with more) I would love to win a cup, but I feel that if you chose a cup over 4th - you're always going to be a 5th-7th side.. I'd prefer to finish 4th as that shows real progression in the league over the course of a whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Not even close, imo. gotta be 4th place and the CL. The one year we are a viable club to break into the top 4, and people are choosing the rinky dink Coca Cola Cup? it's not even the FA Cup, ffs! CHAMPIONS LEAGUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Not even close, imo. gotta be 4th place and the CL. The one year we are a viable club to break into the top 4, and people are choosing the rinky dink Coca Cola Cup? it's not even the FA Cup, ffs! CHAMPIONS LEAGUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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