CrackpotForeigner Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Not everybody is able to back up their views with information they have at their fingertips, Peter.Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 this thread got frightening very quickly. violence towards others is a trait we all have, does that mean we can beat peple up and excuse it as just who we are? just because it's a human trait doesn't justify it.. applying atavistic behaviours to economic policy is best left to sci-fi writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Communism allows no room for altruism. Utter garbage. altruism is not something that needs room from whatever political system, including communism. Altruism is a human trait, a persoanl trait - "yes I'll help another person". People under Communist, Fascist democratic regimes are all capable of altrusim as has been shown may times over No, the garbage is entirely yours. True, examples of individual altruism can be found at any time and in any place, although they occur less often in communist societies due to the 'post apocalyptic' economic levels that invariably prevail, thus altruism is usually unaffordable. However, on a national or government level, altruism is totally non existent. The state may shoot you to put you out of your misery, but that is as compassionate as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The general dislike of Thatcherite economics ignores the emergence of the selfish gene in socialist heroes such as Blair, Prescott and Mandelson, to name but a few recent leaders. I would argue these lads are wholly representative of their particular political class. It's not mutually exclusive. It is possible to both loathe Thatcherite economics and to loathe Blair, Mandelson et al. I'm sure you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Be it Ceaucescu, Mengistu, Mugabe, Ghaddafi or Blair, these boys all end up at the opposite end of the line to socialist good intentions... Power corrupts, you mean? Well I never. No doubt about that. We all know that power corrupts... and no doubt it corrupted Mrs Thatcher too. For me the difference lies in the irony of those who set out saying they will better the lot of the poor, always end up taking away what little the poor had to begin with. The Thatcher system (call it what you will) does not sound as attractive in TV sound bites, but in reality does much more for the poor than the bleating socialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Depends whether you believe any of the afformentioned were Socialists in the first place. I would prefer to equate Socialism with the likes of Nye Bevan, Mo Mowlam, Clement Attlee, Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner, Robin Cooke, John Smith etc. As for sticking their snouts in the trough. Well yes , human frailty may well cause some of them to succumb to the more base avaricious tendencies of the human psyche. But I find it overly cynical to attribute such tendencies as the norm. Indeed I believe such avaricious characteristics are to be found far more in evidence in the modern Tory party. I'm sure there are plenty of well intentioned socialists, and no doubt you have named a few... there may even be a few well intentioned tories as well. However, saying you love the NHS, want higher pensions, better education and more wages for everyone, never put a single meal on a single plate. As for being overly cynical, perhaps you are right... sadly however, and this is doubtless the result of my experiences... I do believe avaricious tendencies represents the norm for the majority who achieve power. The great trick is to have a system which takes this into account... on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What on earth makes you think that people who don't share your predatory approach to economics are big fans of authoritarian, totalitarian communism? All business is essentially predatory. I think it was Clausewitz who said 'war is a continuation of diplomacy by other methods'... well, someone also said that business is a continuation of war by other methods. Business is like evolution... it too never stands still. Either you are quick, or you are dead. You are either advancing or you are going backwards relative to others. Change is the enemy of authoritarianism. The whole basis of authoritarianism is to maintain the status quo... but it can never be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 23, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2012 The whole basis of authoritarianism is to maintain the status quo... That's conservatism. Conservatism (Latin: conservare, "to preserve")[1] is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and supports, at the most, minimal and gradual change in society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just had a phone call from my daughter to say she's been made redundant from her minimum wage job at a deli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I thought the ecconomy was picking up slightly. I know a lot of builders they seem to be stacked for work. I cant work it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The whole basis of authoritarianism is to maintain the status quo... That's conservatism. Conservatism (Latin: conservare, "to preserve")[1] is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and supports, at the most, minimal and gradual change in society Apologies for the delayed reply. I've not looked in for the past few weeks. Thanks for informing us all of that... though perhaps someday you will learn to look past simple language and dictionary definitions to see the reality that hides behind them. Or do you believe the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea (that's the northern bit) really is a democratic republic under the control of the people.... no, please don't tell me... 'Yes'. You do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Not even the panic at the forecourts managed to stave it off: UK economy in double-dip recession The UK economy has returned to recession, after shrinking by 0.2% in the first three months of 2012. A sharp fall in construction output was behind the surprise contraction, the Office for National Statistics said. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of contraction. The economy shrank by 0.3% in the fourth quarter of 2011. Wednesday's figure is an early estimate and is subject to at least two further revisions in the coming months. The ONS said output of the production industries decreased by 0.4%, construction decreased by 3%, and output of the service sector increased by 0.1%. It added that a fall in public sector investment had contributed to the particularly large fall in the construction sector. Some have questioned the validity of the ONS's figures, particularly on the construction industry, which has been volatile in recent quarters. But Joe Grice, chief economic adviser to the ONS, said the construction data was based on a survey of 8,000 companies and had been carefully checked and double checked. The latest figures supported the view that the economy had been "flattish" in the past few quarters, he added. ...more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I thought the ecconomy was picking up slightly. I know a lot of builders they seem to be stacked for work. I cant work it out? It is strange how some areas that you would expect to get hit hard seem to be so busy. I've also experienced builders being really busy, along with gardeners. how hard is it to get a gardener to do some basic gardening at £10-12/hour? they are not interested, too much work on apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 25, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2012 The builders thing is usually explained by the fact that the housing market is depressed, so people are spending money on extending/improving their existing properties, rather than trying to buy and sell. I was talking to a builder in Walsall a couple of weeks ago at a family party. He said he was indeed very busy - but he knew other builders who were struggling, so I guess it varies. The good ones succeed, the poor/unlucky ones don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Quick, get Murdoch on the telly before the pubic catch on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 25, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just had a phone call from my daughter to say she's been made redundant from her minimum wage job at a deli. Good news was that she went out armed with a pile of CVs and after a week or so had found herself another (similar) job. Norman Tebbitt would be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Nice work Mike's daughter. I was relieved of my 12 month contract in 2008 (only 2 months in to it) and once I got bored of doing nothing at home got a job in a factory for a few weeks to keep me busy without any trouble at all. Even in this economy there are jobs for those who can be bothered. For anyone interested I got back to my 'proper' job after 6 months out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Nice work Mike's daughter. I was relieved of my 12 month contract in 2008 (only 2 months in to it) and once I got bored of doing nothing at home got a job in a factory for a few weeks to keep me busy without any trouble at all. Even in this economy there are jobs for those who can be bothered. For anyone interested I got back to my 'proper' job after 6 months out of work. Funny how the number of people who can't be bothered increases so rapidly whenever the Tories get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Quick, get Murdoch on the telly before the pubic catch on! pubic lice? :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Spain in big trouble 25% of working population on the dole Bailout looking likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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