Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Olympiakos

[The Fun Factory]

Clearly the main thing to take from yesterday is it Olympiakos or Olympiacos?

[fightoffyour]

6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Clearly the main thing to take from yesterday is it Olympiakos or Olympiacos?

Ολυμπιακός

[El Segundo]

I don't think our overall performance was terrible. We lost because of a series of individual errors including the Ref/VAR:

Goal 1: Cash failed to hold the line (not for the first time) which allowed them a free run on goal.  He frequently takes that extra step back as if he either doesn't quite trust the process or his own ability to get back and cover.  There are a few  examples of this tendency.

Goal 2: Digne started to go with the runner then changed his mind too late and made a hopelessly doomed attempt to play offside.  Again a free run on goal.  Lenglet has been criticised for going into the challenge but I dare say he was relying on his team mates to maintain the offside line if he didn't win it.  Olsen could perhaps have done better with it but he was dropped right in it.

Goal 3: Utterly, pointless, brainless stupidity from Luiz, again not for the first time.  Killed our momentum just when we were going for the kill.

Goal 4:  Lucky deflection, but McGinn should have closed down quicker, Konsa should not have turned his back and Olsen should have done better with it having got a strong hand on it.

Missed Pen:  McGinn and Diaby getting involved in scuffles added to the delay and pressure on Doug.  Doug's performances recently and especially on the night were screaming "don't let him near the pen".  

Ref/VAR:  Failed to give us or even review a clear pen, disallowed a goal for the softest of shirt pulls, and generally made some bizarre calls on fouls. 

Aside from those albeit critical errors, I thought the overall play was decent and their defence didn't look great.  Eradicate the individual brain farts in the second leg and we have a fighting chance.

[VillaJ100]

If not for that dumb penalty we'd have bashed them about 5-2 I think. As it is it totally killed the game. The crowd didn't help they were totally stunned for 20+ mins after

[Pongo Waring]

Can we win the tie?

[Daveburnside]

6 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

Can we win the tie?

Yes we will!

[TRO]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

I thought Lenglet could have done more when he conceded the corner which led to the penalty. If he had reacted quicker, he could have cleared his lines or, even put it out for a throw - in. You have to sense danger sometimes, and then, snuff it out before it becomes a bigger problem than if should have. 

he's not one for me, Sheepy.

 

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I agree with your underlying point on us conceding too many goals - I think to a large extent recently that's been about us having lost a big chunk of our central midfield - we're pretty much a 4-2-4 now by necessity. We started the season one light in that second line of midfielders with just Kamara, Luiz and McGinn and having lost Kamara we're susceptible to teams getting at us - we've got lots of attacking midfield players (Rogers, Ramsey, Zaniolo, Bailey, Tielemans, Diaby) but we're definitely short in the middle which has lead to us having less control of games and less protection for the back line at times.

For last night though, Olympiacos had five shots on target and scored four goals. One of those was a penalty that isn't always given, one took a huge deflection and one might well have been offside - I think in terms of the way in which we have been conceding goals, last night was pretty unique, an outlier in terms of our recent play - the one 'normal' goal they scored was exactly the type we've conceded more of - but the others were to some extent the result of a lot of luck - the result was something of a freak one.

With Kamara likely to miss the start of next season and Iroegbunam not considered ready for starts, I think we'll need to look at midfield for strengthening - for the moment, I don't think we have any alternative but to limp on and try to outscore teams - I don't think it's plan A, and for someone who likes to control games with possession and positioning like Unai Emery does, it must be incredibly frustrating, but it's all we've got with the bodies we have left.

Just a quick response to some of your points.

• Unai firmly dismissed the notion of us being unlucky
• The deflection, was the result of the defender turning away from the shot and the players back was a perfect runway, for the shot.
• The point about the imbalance between attacking and defensive midfielders, is a significant one, and has been, even before Unai's tenure. I agree with your synopsis.
• I think the penalty against Dougie, was Legit.
• I think it is bordering on imperative to secure another CDM with the necessary skill set....as a matter of urgency.
• I totally agree with your sentiment, that we are playing in a way, to get results, with the personnel we have.....I don't think long term, Unai will ignore the security of conceding goals.....Like you, I think its all he can do, is try to outscore teams.

just to add one point......I think Emi M has placed us in a false sense of security, with his world class goal keeping.....He eventually needs protecting better.

[foreveryoung]

I think if we beat Brighton and Tottenham lose to Liverpool, which is likely, 4th place will be wrapped up. So I would then expect Emery to tell the team to give everything they have got in the second leg and just go for it.

[delboy54]

Emery I am sure knows by now exactly what our problems are and what type of players we need, as well as those we don't need.

He will have learnt alot about how and why we lose games or the lead (the Villa panic mentality). The issue is we either don't have the players as they are injured or we haven't yet got those players, but we will...

[TRO]

2 hours ago, El Segundo said:

I don't think our overall performance was terrible. We lost because of a series of individual errors including the Ref/VAR:

Goal 1: Cash failed to hold the line (not for the first time) which allowed them a free run on goal.  He frequently takes that extra step back as if he either doesn't quite trust the process or his own ability to get back and cover.  There are a few  examples of this tendency.

Goal 2: Digne started to go with the runner then changed his mind too late and made a hopelessly doomed attempt to play offside.  Again a free run on goal.  Lenglet has been criticised for going into the challenge but I dare say he was relying on his team mates to maintain the offside line if he didn't win it.  Olsen could perhaps have done better with it but he was dropped right in it.

Goal 3: Utterly, pointless, brainless stupidity from Luiz, again not for the first time.  Killed our momentum just when we were going for the kill.

Goal 4:  Lucky deflection, but McGinn should have closed down quicker, Konsa should not have turned his back and Olsen should have done better with it having got a strong hand on it.

Missed Pen:  McGinn and Diaby getting involved in scuffles added to the delay and pressure on Doug.  Doug's performances recently and especially on the night were screaming "don't let him near the pen".  

Ref/VAR:  Failed to give us or even review a clear pen, disallowed a goal for the softest of shirt pulls, and generally made some bizarre calls on fouls. 

Aside from those albeit critical errors, I thought the overall play was decent and their defence didn't look great.  Eradicate the individual brain farts in the second leg and we have a fighting chance.

We usually do.

Some of those points, are simply not good enough, and are repetitive. ( from the players, I mean)

The goal 4 was a poor defensive action.....just like the one with Zaniolo, recently, where the shot breached the wall and they both shied away......its puny work.

Shirt pulls for me always run the risk of punishment.....I don't understand any mitigation applied to the action...it either is or it isn't......refs will always apply their own discretion, sadly......I say, just don't do it, in the penalty area, especially.

I thought there was elements of the overall play, that was poor.....some bits were ok. I thought without the ball, we looked passive.

Edited May 3 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Emery I am sure knows by now exactly what our problems are and what type of players we need, as well as those we don't need.

He will have learnt alot about how and why we lose games or the lead (the Villa panic mentality). The issue is we either don't have the players as they are injured or we haven't yet got those players, but we will...

Exactly, how I see it.

The Summer, will be interesting.....I think we will be busy, but I don't see the signings being huge fee's.

[onmeedson]

It's Tranmere all over again.

[ender4]

15 minutes ago, onmeedson said:

It's Tranmere all over again.

What happened with Tranmere?

[TomC]

7 hours ago, romavillan said:

Maybe at home we might have, but the atmosphere over there will be madness, be a much more hostile environment than the Lille game.

Legia in Warsaw was pretty hostile. (Or even Legia at VP, LOL.)

 

[TomC]

8 hours ago, ben1505 said:

I know that Wet Spam won this but their league form really suffered and they were lucky not to get relegated.. 

We've proven that we can handle Europe. Whether we win, lose the final, or lose in the semis, we've made it most of the season and finished 4th in the PL. We're not West Ham (though we could use some more depth).

 

[TomC]

I've defended Olsen's shot-stopping, but Jacob Tanswell made a good point in the Athletic...one of the things that we really missed about Emi last night was his sweeper-keeper ability. They played a lot of early balls to the front runners. (Ironic, the Greek team looked more like an English team and the English team looked more like a continental team.)

 

[ben1505]

19 minutes ago, TomC said:

We've proven that we can handle Europe. Whether we win, lose the final, or lose in the semis, we've made it most of the season and finished 4th in the PL. We're not West Ham (though we could use some more depth).

 

West Ham’s success came at a cost of league position.. ours hasn’t…

[TomC]

5 minutes ago, ben1505 said:

West Ham’s success came at a cost of league position.. ours hasn’t…

Exactly...you said it clearer than I did...

 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I think if we beat Brighton and Tottenham lose to Liverpool, which is likely, 4th place will be wrapped up. So I would then expect Emery to tell the team to give everything they have got in the second leg and just go for it.

It would certainly help being able to go into that game with out any distractions. 

[one_ian_taylor]

50 minutes ago, ender4 said:

What happened with Tranmere?

We won on pens over two legs. 

I'm  oddly confident we will again. Don't  know why.

Who will be Graham Fenton this time?