Popular Post Anthony Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Genie said: The Americans love shooting at stuff, why haven’t they got it down yet? It must be just a matter of time. It's white. 5 1 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) Little known fact, balloon based ordnance was responsible during WWII for the deaths of civilians on the US mainland, so this has precedent, and I can see why the US would be peed off. If I'm honest I can see why they've not shot it down, they can extract a lot of embarrassment from the Chinese government. They must be losing face over it. Edited February 4, 2023 by HKP90 Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Are the US sure its not a gigantic Chinese new year lantern ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 From what I've read they are worried about debris if they shoot it down, it's quite big. And it's also out of range from most anti aircraft weapons due to it floating around at 20.000-30.000 meters. It even makes it difficult for fighter jets to target it. Apparently. The altitude also means it's no danger to regular aircraft traffic. Quote Shooting down a suspected Chinese spy balloon could be a lot harder than it sounds, former Navy pilot says Shooting down the suspected Chinese spy balloon is harder than it seems, a former Navy pilot told Insider. Engaging it is no easy task, and attempting to do so puts people on the ground at risk, the expert said. Still, there is a growing call for the balloon to be shot down. Why doesn't the US just shoot down the suspected Chinese spy balloon floating around parts of the country like a growing chorus of GOP lawmakers, as well as former President Donald Trump, are demanding? Because it's not that simple, a former Navy pilot told Insider. Attempting to take out the high-altitude balloon with the air defense systems the US has is "very difficult," it's hard to engage it with fighter aircraft, and shooting it down also risks injuries and fatalities on the ground, explained Brynn Tannehill, a former naval aviator and senior technical analyst at the RAND Corporation think tank. Balloons like the one that was spotted this week over the continental US can operate at more than 100,000 feet, and according to Tannehill, most US anti-air weapons systems were not "designed" to eliminate targets that high up. https://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-down-chinese-spy-balloon-harder-than-it-seems-2023-2?r=US&IR=T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Not sure if you meant it or not but the Chinese president is said to look like Winnie the Pooh by his political detractors. Apparently the comparison annoyed him so much that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, sne said: From what I've read they are worried about debris if they shoot it down, it's quite big. And it's also out of range from most anti aircraft weapons due to it floating around at 20.000-30.000 meters. It even makes it difficult for fighter jets to target it. Apparently. The altitude also means it's no danger to regular aircraft traffic. https://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-down-chinese-spy-balloon-harder-than-it-seems-2023-2?r=US&IR=T Risking countless lives by arming everyone with an trigger finger and half a brain, but won't take a nominal risk resulting from falling debris? In the Pacific northwest which is mostly forest? I just don’t get America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It's weird this, both the Americans and Chinese are saying that there would be no real benefit in terms of it as a spying object, there's nothing it can get that they couldn't get much more easily using satellites. It begs the question of why they'd do it? Perhaps the intention was to force the US into a position where they'd pull out of the upcoming meeting, but I don't see what China would gain from that. The most sensible explanation so far would be that it actually is a civilian weather airship gone off course, but I'm not buying that for a minute. All very peculiar. No, that’s the story the Americans are running with but it does have a major advantage over satellites. Satellites run on a predictable orbit. The Americans know that “at 3.15 on Wednesday the Chinese satellite will be passing over so time to hide all the good stuff”. Not so easy with a balloon they didn’t even know was there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: No, that’s the story the Americans are running with but it does have a major advantage over satellites. Satellites run on a predictable orbit. The Americans know that “at 3.15 on Wednesday the Chinese satellite will be passing over so time to hide all the good stuff”. Not so easy with a balloon they didn’t even know was there. But as a counterpoint, the Chinese also have no control over where the balloon goes. Where the wind blows, it goes. They are as likely to be taking pictures of a housing estate in downtown Chicago as area 51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 It's not hard - just send Maverick and his team to take it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 Surely all they have to do is strap a big needle to the front of a U-2 and ram it. Job's a good 'un. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 They've decided to shoot it down now apparently. RIP the poor Chinese guy sitting frozen solid with a pair of binoculars inside the gondola under the balloon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2023 51 minutes ago, HKP90 said: the Chinese also have no control over where the balloon goes. Where the wind blows, it goes The wind direction at different altitudes is different. By controlling the altitude, direction can be controlled quite well, if not precisely and obviously there’s always a dependency on prevailing winds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, blandy said: The wind direction at different altitudes is different. By controlling the altitude, direction can be controlled quite well, if not precisely and obviously there’s always a dependency on prevailing winds. It's not a hot air balloon, though, they can only really control altitude by dropping ballast, and that only works once. They follow the Jetstream, too, which describes a variable but very definitive direction. Individual layers within the Jetstream follow a similar path, like a turbulent river. If the jetstream overflies an airbase or something, cool, if not they are out of luck. Variations in direction of the Jetstream are difficult to predict, which, given its role in driving weather systems, is why forecasts at mid latitudes (like us) are unreliable. In general it's just a crummy system which only has merit as an unpredictable tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, HKP90 said: In general it's just a crummy system which only has merit as an unpredictable tactic. Or a political object. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Or a political object. Yes, or that. Still not quite sure what China gets out of it. It's all a bit of a mystery really. Weren't there talks of drones being used for spying not so long back? Maybe it's a distraction tactic for whatever more viable spying methods they are using? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, HKP90 said: But as a counterpoint, the Chinese also have no control over where the balloon goes. Where the wind blows, it goes. They are as likely to be taking pictures of a housing estate in downtown Chicago as area 51. That’s not entirely true. They control its altitude and the wind blows in different directions at different altitudes. Controlling its direction is a matter of picking the correct altitude for the direction you want to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, LondonLax said: That’s not entirely true. They control its altitude and the wind blows in different directions at different altitudes. Controlling its direction is a matter of picking the correct altitude for the direction you want to travel. As mentioned above, not in the jetstream, and they can only go higher, by dumping ballast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, HKP90 said: It's not a hot air balloon, though, they can only really control altitude by dropping ballast, and that only works once. They follow the Jetstream, too, which describes a variable but very definitive direction. Individual layers within the Jetstream follow a similar path, like a turbulent river. If the jetstream overflies an airbase or something, cool, if not they are out of luck. Variations in direction of the Jetstream are difficult to predict, which, given its role in driving weather systems, is why forecasts at mid latitudes (like us) are unreliable. In general it's just a crummy system which only has merit as an unpredictable tactic. It’s not ballast that controls the height but the temperature of the gas in the balloon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, LondonLax said: It’s not ballast that controls the height but the temperature of the gas in the balloon. It's not a hot air balloon, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, HKP90 said: It's not a hot air balloon, though. This was the take I got from the defence analysist in a BBC article Quote Dr Marina Miron, researcher in defence studies at Kings College London says the balloon might have been more sophisticated than China claims. "The balloon could be controlled remotely by an operator on the ground," she says. "They'd be able to raise or lower the altitude of the balloon so that it could pick up different wind currents which are going in different directions. "You would want to be able to make it linger over a spot to collect data. This is something you can do with balloon which you cannot do with a satellite." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-64514120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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