Does the West Midlands region do an adequate job of marketing itself?

[Wainy316]

26 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Here's what I myself think of, as a fairly well-educated American, when I think of what makes it special, probably pretty dated:

1. Incredible arts and handicrafts, from fine porcelain and bicycle saddles to jewelry, etc.
2. Cadbury and quakery socialism.
3. Early heavy metal, two-tone, and Duran Duran.
4. West Indian culture, activism, reggae scene
5. A few decent football clubs and some that ought to be expunged from the face of the earth.
6. Industrial history.
7. Some decent local universities.

I'm sure others see it very differently, but the arts and crafts history thing is definitely what stands out most to me. I feel like if there was anywhere in the UK where I would want to buy a new British-made thing, I would want it from Birmingham. It has a reputation (maybe faded? ) for extremely skilled labour. 

8. The Lord of the Rings

[mjmooney]

3 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

8. The Lord of the Rings

Most people will think of that as a film franchise, rather than a book. And will consider 'LotR country' to be New Zealand. 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Well, there's that, yes, can't disagree one bit. But have cities such as Manchester or Leeds received more investment from central government and/or enjoyed better local governance? Honestly haven't the faintest idea of that, would be interested in learning.

Well two things to say:

1. No UK city outside London has really boomed, contrary to what you might read. Everywhere is in bad shape at the moment and needs help. So it's not like Manchester and Leeds are miles ahead of Birmingham (Manchester probably is the best performing of the so-called "Core Cities" but it still has plenty of problems), and Leeds is arguably around the same level or maybe even behind.

2. A lot of these "booms" are really just speculative property booms, the Council collects tax/rates and reinvests in the local area, so if for whatever reason a particular location is seen as attractive for buy-to-let, starter homes, etc. there's a lot of cash to be made there - but that's likely to all dry up now.

This is worth a read on Manchester's regeneration, what caused it, and what is currently happening. It's not as rosy a picture as you might think, and a lot of it was down to central govt investment in public sector jobs pre-2008 under Blair/Brown:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/manchester-transformed/

Quote

So few new (private) jobs

The weak record of Greater Manchester on job creation has been obscured by booster claims which confuse cyclical gains and structural effects and fail to separate out private from public sector job creation. We hold activity levels constant by calculating job creation over two sub-periods – 1998-2008 and 2008-14 – which begin and end with Greater Manchester unemployment rate around 7 per cent; and then cross check by considering long run trends from 1991-2015.

In the pre-2008 period, job creation was heavily dependent on the public sector which was creating jobs in the centre. The public sector accounted for more than half of the 46,000 extra jobs created in the ten Greater Manchester boroughs between 1998 and 2008. Because of the concentration of hospital, university, and administrative functions in central Manchester, Manchester City claimed 16,000 of these jobs, accounting for 40 per cent of its total job creation.

The post-2008 story is dismal. The outer northern boroughs of Oldham, Rochdale and Tameside are in a dire plight because they are now net losers of both private and public sector jobs. Once again, the net gains are concentrated in the central city and the inner south-west quadrant. From 2008-14, Manchester City gains 30,000 net new jobs, while four of the ten GM boroughs see job loss. A commuting solution is then blocked by the formatting of the city.

Not commuting but in-migration to central flats

Central Manchester is not like central London, which is substantially dependent on radial commuting by public transport from outer boroughs. Long distance commuting is discouraged when the Manchester City region combines relatively cheap central flats and inner residential suburbs with low wages and high fares. In 2011, 109,000 residents lived and worked in the borough of Manchester City and this almost exactly equalled the net inflow of 108,000 commuters from outside the borough.

Excluding movements from Salford to Manchester, 60-70 per cent of the commutes in to Manchester City from the nine other boroughs are by car. Lower public transport fares would help but there is often no public transport alternative to the private car for orbital movements; and the major volume increases between 2001 and 2011 are in non-radial commutes which have a high level of car dependence.

The primary limit on commuting into the centre is increasingly not access to public transport but the ready availability of one and two-bedroom inner city rented flats. Because the flats encourage in-migration of 25-34-year-olds to Manchester and Salford who are generally too old to be students but young enough to be mobile and unencumbered. Between 2001 and 2014, the population of this age group increased by 46,000 in Manchester City and Salford and it declined in all other boroughs; 34 per cent of these inner city 25-34-year-olds are born outside the UK.

Policy reset for a new civic offer

When Greater Manchester has been formatted for exclusive growth by the mono-culture of flat building in the centre, the city region needs a policy reset.

There's some opinion and a few strong hints of ideology in the piece, but most of the facts are pretty hard to dispute.

[tinker]

49 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Most people will think of that as a film franchise, rather than a book. And will consider 'LotR country' to be New Zealand. 

They need to be educated via a decent marketing team.

Edited January 26, 2023 by tinker

[mikeyp102]

The Birmingham food scene alone is worth visiting brum for, yet in line with the topic many people outside of brum don’t know about it. 

[icouldtelltheworld]

6 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Well, there's that, yes, can't disagree one bit. But have cities such as Manchester or Leeds received more investment from central government and/or enjoyed better local governance? Honestly haven't the faintest idea of that, would be interested in learning.

Greater Manchester has had devolved powers for 5 years longer than the West Mids which probably makes a difference. The GM elected mayor is a once quite prominent politician who might have once fancied himself a future PM and is enjoying a fairly successful comeback special. WM current (and only) elected mayor is a guy who made his money in retail.

I would say they probably have more cohesive local governance up there in general as most of the region would generally vote Labour, whereas the West Mids has traditionally had a few more Tory voters than you might expect for a large English conurbation, and so possibly a bit harder here to get things done and work collectively. I've never lived in Manchester though so that might be bollocks.

Yorkshire has a longstanding and fairly unique identity and Leeds perhaps benefits a bit for being its biggest city. Tbh though I've always thought Leeds is the most similar city to Brum, my sister lives just outside Leeds and travelling from the city out to the smaller industrial towns of West Yorkshire feels a lot like going from Brum to Walsall or Dudley.

Birmingham is also a ridiculously large city council. It's by far the largest local authority in the UK and I believe in the whole of Europe. Whereas London has lots of different boroughs, the whole of Birmingham comes under one very lumbersome and inefficient council, which has to deal with lots of the issues that arise from having high rates of poverty. By comparison, even what most people would consider to be part of Liverpool, a city with a population a third the size, is split into different council areas.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by icouldtelltheworld

[VillaChris]

Few guys I know from Landan came up to Brum for first time last year and loved it.

One thing they did say though is why is half the centre getting dug up. Of course you can't build a HS2 station in about four months so that's inevitably going to take years but frustrating to read the Metro extension to Digbeth/Custard factory won't open until apparently 2027 now.

Far too long but probably same length of time as it took to extend to just past five ways. Pretty sure Manchester extended their metrolink to the Airport in under two years.

Best marketing for Brum was Commonwealth games anyway, massive success and I do think that has changed the perceptions for many given what a good event it was for tourists. Now if anyone can find the Bull....

[Lichfield Dean]

21 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Few guys I know from Landan came up to Brum for first time last year and loved it.

One thing they did say though is why is half the centre getting dug up. Of course you can't build a HS2 station in about four months so that's inevitably going to take years but frustrating to read the Metro extension to Digbeth/Custard factory won't open until apparently 2027 now.

Far too long but probably same length of time as it took to extend to just past five ways. Pretty sure Manchester extended their metrolink to the Airport in under two years.

Best marketing for Brum was Commonwealth games anyway, massive success and I do think that has changed the perceptions for many given what a good event it was for tourists. Now if anyone can find the Bull....

The building works are even worse now - Victoria Square has been totally dug up for some reason and it's making walking through town a nightmare. Yes, at some unidentified point in the future the town might be better as a result but at the moment it's awful and quite frankly it's doing my head in.

[Marka Ragnos]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Well two things to say:

1. No UK city outside London has really boomed, contrary to what you might read. Everywhere is in bad shape at the moment and needs help. So it's not like Manchester and Leeds are miles ahead of Birmingham (Manchester probably is the best performing of the so-called "Core Cities" but it still has plenty of problems), and Leeds is arguably around the same level or maybe even behind.

2. A lot of these "booms" are really just speculative property booms, the Council collects tax/rates and reinvests in the local area, so if for whatever reason a particular location is seen as attractive for buy-to-let, starter homes, etc. there's a lot of cash to be made there - but that's likely to all dry up now.

This is worth a read on Manchester's regeneration, what caused it, and what is currently happening. It's not as rosy a picture as you might think, and a lot of it was down to central govt investment in public sector jobs pre-2008 under Blair/Brown:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/manchester-transformed/

There's some opinion and a few strong hints of ideology in the piece, but most of the facts are pretty hard to dispute.

Very interesting. I will definitely read it.

57 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Greater Manchester has had devolved powers for 5 years longer than the West Mids which probably makes a difference. The GM elected mayor is a once quite prominent politician who might have once fancied himself a future PM and is enjoying a fairly successful comeback special. WM current (and only) elected mayor is a guy who made his money in retail.

I would say they probably have more cohesive local governance up there in general as most of the region would generally vote Labour, whereas the West Mids has traditionally had a few more Tory voters than you might expect for a large English conurbation, and so possibly a bit harder here to get things done and work collectively. I've never lived in Manchester though so that might be bollocks.

Yorkshire has a longstanding and fairly unique identity and Leeds perhaps benefits a bit for being its biggest city. Tbh though I've always thought Leeds is the most similar city to Brum, my sister lives just outside Leeds and travelling from the city out to the smaller industrial towns of West Yorkshire feels a lot like going from Brum to Walsall or Dudley.

Birmingham is also a ridiculously large city council. It's by far the largest local authority in the UK and I believe in the whole of Europe. Whereas London has lots of different boroughs, the whole of Birmingham comes under one very lumbersome and inefficient council, which has to deal with lots of the issues that arise from having high rates of poverty. By comparison, even what most people would consider to be part of Liverpool, a city with a population a third the size, is split into different council areas.

 

Fascinating. That reminds me of some large American cities, the giant city councils that can’t seem to get anything done. I think Los Angeles is a good example of that, according to my relatives who live there.

[Marka Ragnos]

@KentVillan I read that very interesting article about the darker side of the “renaissance” of Central Manchester. It does remind me a lot of a pattern one sees in the United States in older cities, where a lot of exclusive property growth and fancy apartments and townhouses are created, but the working class gradually gets shoved out or forced into substandard housing. It’s one of several species of gentrification, of course. But as the article you shared suggests, the boom eventually fades. 

[villa4europe]

7 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Most people will think of that as a film franchise, rather than a book. And will consider 'LotR country' to be New Zealand. 

Can remember driving past Perrotts Folly and said to the missus "Lord of the rings, two towers, that's one of the towers" she was baffled, I was going past it every other week on the way to the villa

Not watched the tolkien film and seen how much of it they set in brum or even talk about the city

[Marka Ragnos]

Is Manchester even cool anymore? When was Joy Division, half a century ago?

[KentVillan]

7 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Is Manchester even cool anymore? When was Joy Division, half a century ago?

Manchester has a knack for producing overrated bands, not sure why that is. They're definitely good at marketing mediocre bands as iconic generational talents. 

[icouldtelltheworld]

I am utterly convinced that everyone is just pretending to like The Smiths as part of some inside joke I'm not wise to

[icouldtelltheworld]

2 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Very interesting. I will definitely read it.

Fascinating. That reminds me of some large American cities, the giant city councils that can’t seem to get anything done. I think Los Angeles is a good example of that, according to my relatives who live there.

I've not been to America but I've heard that you basically need to drive to get anywhere in LA. That's true of Birmingham as well, and a lot of the current work going on in the city that people are talking about in this thread is geared towards making the place easier to navigate without needing to drive.

I'm sure you are already aware, but we tend to get compared to Detroit because of the importance of the car industry here and its decline over time

[maqroll]

Where's Telly Savalas when you need him?

[VillaChris]

Bizarre to me Brum dosen't have any sort of music museum. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by VillaChris

[Wainy316]

14 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Can remember driving past Perrotts Folly and said to the missus "Lord of the rings, two towers, that's one of the towers" she was baffled, I was going past it every other week on the way to the villa

Not watched the tolkien film and seen how much of it they set in brum or even talk about the city

Absolutely zero

[Wainy316]

16 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Yorkshire has a longstanding and fairly unique identity

 

Or Yorkshire folk would tell you anyway.  They never shut up about being from there as though it's a character defining thing.

Nothing stands out as different about them to me, apart from their complete inability to say the word 'the'.

[MakemineVanilla]

I always like Jonathan Meades' critique of Brum, which he seems to quite like: