MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 10 hours ago, KentVillan said: But Kane played for that. I think that is why, sometimes we say "awarded" a penalty and in other instances "won". Back in 1990 Lineker actually boasted about "winning" the second penalty against Cameroon, when he knocked it past the goalkeeper knowing he would bring him down. Such antics are usually listed under the term "professional", which was considered a slur back in the days of gentlemen and players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I think that is why, sometimes we say "awarded" a penalty and in other instances "won". Back in 1990 Lineker actually boasted about "winning" the second penalty against Cameroon, when he knocked it past the goalkeeper knowing he would bring him down. Such antics are usually listed under the term "professional", which was considered a slur back in the days of gentlemen and players. Knocking it past a player so they bring you down is acceptable levels of winning a free kick/ penalty. Faking contact/falling over when the contact makes no impact on your ability to otherwise reach the ball is cheating. There is a fine line with a lot of the incidents where there is contact, and only the player really knows if it affected him. The issue is cheating has been rewarded for so long in the game that it is now just seen as a skill. One which Harry Kane is very good at. The incident last night is a dive for me. There was contact, but not enough to make kane fall over (imo). Kane threw himself on the floor, knowing he would never have reached the ball regardless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 10 hours ago, paul514 said: With Southgate in charge. Unfortunately we still wouldn't be able to keep the ball as the Spanish do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 44 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Knocking it past a player so they bring you down is acceptable levels of winning a free kick/ penalty. Faking contact/falling over when the contact makes no impact on your ability to otherwise reach the ball is cheating. There is a fine line with a lot of the incidents where there is contact, and only the player really knows if it affected him. The issue is cheating has been rewarded for so long in the game that it is now just seen as a skill. One which Harry Kane is very good at. The incident last night is a dive for me. There was contact, but not enough to make kane fall over (imo). Kane threw himself on the floor, knowing he would never have reached the ball regardless. Agree, Kane dangles a leg out and initiates contact with a player who isn’t attempting a tackle, and when he isn’t getting to the ball himself. Think refs usually let that go, and would prefer they did. But obviously not going to complain if he cons them again in a World Cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorke81 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 8 hours ago, paul514 said: Strikers are crap, still playing dani alves and thiago..... fred plays in midfield. They have a lot of good players buy glaring holes in the squad, it isn't as strong as ours. I don't understand why people can't see France easily has the best, were second and Spain trailing behind us. We are talking about the same France (in full strength) that lost at home to Denmark some days ago? (Sorry, cheap shot I know, but being Danish I just can't help it ) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 35 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Knocking it past a player so they bring you down is acceptable levels of winning a free kick/ penalty. Faking contact/falling over when the contact makes no impact on your ability to otherwise reach the ball is cheating. There is a fine line with a lot of the incidents where there is contact, and only the player really knows if it affected him. The issue is cheating has been rewarded for so long in the game that it is now just seen as a skill. One which Harry Kane is very good at. The incident last night is a dive for me. There was contact, but not enough to make kane fall over (imo). Kane threw himself on the floor, knowing he would never have reached the ball regardless. The ethics of football are not very laudible, and from the examples seen just about every week, anything a player can get away with seems to define the boundaries, but only up to a certain degree. The contract between attacker and defender seems to be: you'll kick me and try and get away with it, and I'll dive and feign injury, to try and gain an advantage. In either case it should not be too blatant. The licence given, to hold, block and baulk at corners, is beyond comprehension. I thought the VAR footage showed there was contact with the Kane penalty, but whether the result accorded with the laws physics, was unclear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: Knocking it past a player so they bring you down is acceptable levels of winning a free kick/ penalty. Faking contact/falling over when the contact makes no impact on your ability to otherwise reach the ball is cheating. There is a fine line with a lot of the incidents where there is contact, and only the player really knows if it affected him. The issue is cheating has been rewarded for so long in the game that it is now just seen as a skill. One which Harry Kane is very good at. The incident last night is a dive for me. There was contact, but not enough to make kane fall over (imo). Kane threw himself on the floor, knowing he would never have reached the ball regardless. Disagree The contact wasn't a lot but caused kanes legs to clip each other which resulted in his fall, he definitely sold it but the contact and trip is there I have a bigger issue with the offside rule, utter nonsense that the defender played that ball, whoever made that rule up doesn't understand football 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Yorke81 said: We are talking about the same France (in full strength) that lost at home to Denmark some days ago? (Sorry, cheap shot I know, but being Danish I just can't help it ) I think France have the same problem as England in that they have a defensive manager But at least Deschamps is an actual manager Edited June 8, 2022 by Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 10 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Disagree The contact wasn't a lot but caused kanes legs to clip each other which resulted in his fall, he definitely sold it but the contact and trip is there I have a bigger issue with the offside rule, utter nonsense that the defender played that ball, whoever made that rule up doesn't understand football Your response perfectly demonstrates my point, that it's a subjective matter when there is contact. Only Kane knows if the contact forced his feet to clip or whether he made his own heel clash after feeling the contact. Given the evidence of his theatrics recently, I can't give him the benefit of the doubt. Agree on the second part though. The defender now has to make a conscious choice in a split second whether to attempt to block a ball that is heading towards a player that may or may not be offside. If they connect with the ball, but it still reaches that player, they may or may not have then played that person back onside. All fully dependent on the whim of the VAR official on that day. It's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Segundo Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Lord knows that anyone with eyes can see that Kane does "go down easily" a lot of the time to win pens and I am fully in agreement at finding such antics disgraceful. I'm also hugely against the "there was contact" argument for giving dubious pens. But I'm genuinely struggling to see how or why this incident is being disparaged as an example of that. He clearly has his trailing leg caught by the defender while trying to run towards the ball, which causes him to trip himself up. No "dangling of the leg seeking contact" from what I saw and certainly no dive, he was caught and tripped over as a result of the contact made with his trailing leg. Clear penalty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2022 4 hours ago, El Segundo said: He clearly has his trailing leg caught by the defender while trying to run towards the ball, which causes him to trip himself up. No "dangling of the leg seeking contact" from what I saw and certainly no dive, he was caught and tripped over as a result of the contact made with his trailing leg. Clear penalty Watching the game live, plus the in-game replays of the foul I thought there were all kinds of wrong with the decision. Then looking at it again later I noticed what I’d earlier missed and it’s exactly what you described, though that is only really crystal clear from one angle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 4 hours ago, El Segundo said: Lord knows that anyone with eyes can see that Kane does "go down easily" a lot of the time to win pens and I am fully in agreement at finding such antics disgraceful. I'm also hugely against the "there was contact" argument for giving dubious pens. But I'm genuinely struggling to see how or why this incident is being disparaged as an example of that. He clearly has his trailing leg caught by the defender while trying to run towards the ball, which causes him to trip himself up. No "dangling of the leg seeking contact" from what I saw and certainly no dive, he was caught and tripped over as a result of the contact made with his trailing leg. Clear penalty. 100% agree, the defenders shin brushes his calf which causes his legs to clip each other which is what causes him to go down if he can purposefully cause his own legs to clip each other then he's a clever clever boy the offside is the bigger talking point, the idea that the defender played the ball or attempted to play the ball and therefore he's onside is a terrible rule that they need to get rid of 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 5 hours ago, El Segundo said: Lord knows that anyone with eyes can see that Kane does "go down easily" a lot of the time to win pens and I am fully in agreement at finding such antics disgraceful. What I've noticed over the years is that the likelihood of a foul being given for or against a player seems to be proportional to their status. This would definitely apply to Kane, and the likes of Mo Salah and van Dijk seem to get more than their fair share of the benefits of the doubt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonVillian Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 these nations league games are just as interesting as friendlies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: 100% agree, the defenders shin brushes his calf which causes his legs to clip each other which is what causes him to go down if he can purposefully cause his own legs to clip each other then he's a clever clever boy the offside is the bigger talking point, the idea that the defender played the ball or attempted to play the ball and therefore he's onside is a terrible rule that they need to get rid of Like Pogba..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Segundo Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 hours ago, blandy said: Watching the game live, plus the in-game replays of the foul I thought there were all kinds of wrong with the decision. Then looking at it again later I noticed what I’d earlier missed and it’s exactly what you described, though that is only really crystal clear from one angle. I'd agree, it isn't clear form the initial incident at normal speed, which is why the ref initially didn't give it. But VAR showed it to be a clear pen - and that's what it's (meant to be) there for. Yet some seem to still be insisting Kane manufactured it. I'm not sure what they are seeing or not seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, El Segundo said: I'd agree, it isn't clear form the initial incident at normal speed, which is why the ref initially didn't give it. But VAR showed it to be a clear pen - and that's what it's (meant to be) there for. Yet some seem to still be insisting Kane manufactured it. I'm not sure what they are seeing or not seeing. It was a foul. By the rulebook, it probably isn't offisde either (but should be in my opinion). But the whole thing bothers me, because it's something I predicted. A shit performance, losing, and a "questionable" penalty followed by comments of "Kane stepping up" "Kane the best England striker" "Kept a cool head" etc. My next prediction will be that the same thing happens against USA. It's papering over the cracks, and this team should be better than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, El Segundo said: I'd agree, it isn't clear form the initial incident at normal speed, which is why the ref initially didn't give it. But VAR showed it to be a clear pen - and that's what it's (meant to be) there for. Yet some seem to still be insisting Kane manufactured it. I'm not sure what they are seeing or not seeing. If Kane hadn't historically dived and gone down easy many times before, there wouldn't be this debate. I've not seen the angle that apparently shows it was clearly contact from the defender that made his legs collide. I'm not inclined to look for it as even if, on this occasion, it was a genuine foul, he's still done it plenty of times before when it wasn't. Given I can't be arsed to find the angle that shows it, I'll stand down on this incident being a joke of a decision. It was still a joke of a performance though, and we were very lucky to get a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 28 minutes ago, Mic09 said: It was a foul. By the rulebook, it probably isn't offisde either (but should be in my opinion). But the whole thing bothers me, because it's something I predicted. A shit performance, losing, and a "questionable" penalty followed by comments of "Kane stepping up" "Kane the best England striker" "Kept a cool head" etc. My next prediction will be that the same thing happens against USA. It's papering over the cracks, and this team should be better than that. USA are a potential big money maker for FIFA, this will happen vs Iran or Wales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Why is the England U21 game not playing yet on the BBC website? It’s still got the waiting page and the game has started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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