Summer Transfer Window 2022

[nick76]

12 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Origi needs to go and start somewhere

which he is going to do at Milan.  Everything is agreed with them and he will take his medical when he returns from holiday next week.

[sparrow1988]

15 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Another option would be Martin Terrier of Rennes

I heard that he's all bark and no bite though.

[HKP90]

2 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

The data on Ollie suggests that he is an average finsiher in and around the middle third of all strikers in the league, which matches with last season as well. There is no data on fbref for the championship so I can't say anything about his time there. All the other examples, Kane and Son aside, that you mention are hardly known as great finishers though are they? Aubameyang maybe but he is on the decline anyway. In fairness to Kane, this season was really an outlier for him. He has been consistently in the top 10 per cent of finishers over the last few seasons. Vardy really is just a freak though.

The question is though who would we get that is going to be a guaranteed (or as near as) upgrade on Ollie or Ings and is it a priority to upgrade the strikeforce compared to other areas of the pitch? If Ings found his shooting boots from the two seasons before joining Villa then we'd have a very good finisher.

Well this is it really, I was just making the point that Ollie is not as terrible a finisher as some would believe. 

[HKP90]

1 hour ago, Rolta said:

Isn't xg showing something a little different? As in, him getting his xg doesn't define him being a good finisher because if he was a better finisher he'd have a higher xg.

 

No, whether or not you achieve, exceed, or fall short of your xG is a good measure of finishing. The actual xG itself (ie how low or high it is) tells you the number of chances that someone is getting. a low xG could be a sign of a limited striker who is not creating, but it could also show that the team as a whole is not providing those chances. 

It therefore can't be used as a metric to judge the quality of a striker as a whole. For instance a player whose sole role is to put the ball in the net can get a low overall xG if his team is not very creative, but he could match or exceed his xG because he is a good finisher,  or alternatively you could have a player who contributes to the team, enabling more goals to be scored (say a false 9), who gets low xG stats. It is, however a reasonable metric when it comes to pure finishing- ie. taking the chances you are given. 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by HKP90

[HKP90]

1 hour ago, Indigo said:

Vardy quite significantly so, Dennis as well and most of the others that have significantly outperformed it aren't strikers and are the likes of KDB, Mount, Ward-Prowse, Maddison, Zaha etc who have either been on free kicks or just had a few from outside the box.

Also worth pointing out that a lot of teams operate systems where the main goal threat is from the wing/outside forwards, so players like Salah (who incidentally also failed to achieve his xG) and Mane (who did) could be considered as forwards for the purpose of this exercise, although we don't operate that kind of system, so I doubt those are the kinds of players we will be looking to recruit. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said:

Son is actually +6.6 so even better. You can mess around with the site. There's all sorts of stuff on there and explanations of what the stats mean and so on. It's actually mad that it's free.

Now we are even praising Kim Jong UN cronies in this thread, wow !

[nick76]

26 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Well this is it really, I was just making the point that Ollie is not as terrible a finisher as some would believe. 

Maybe it's then just more how it looks, that when he does miss it is poor but he still gets his fair share.  I'm never confident of him scoring one on one or when he has time to think about it, in mind now I can remember some occasions when I remember him looking like a deer in headlights but the stats say overall he scores what he is expected to score.  For me though he works hard and is all over the pitch but not always in the position to score and I dont think he fits Gerrard's system.  I'm still worried he hit his ceiling and thus that and not imo not fitting Gerrard's system that if a big bid came in for him and Gerrard had somebody in mind to replace him then I would sell him 

[paul514]

So Bissouma has gone to Spurs for 25-30m so you can strike that from our list.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said:

Son is actually +6.6 so even better. You can mess around with the site. There's all sorts of stuff on there and explanations of what the stats mean and so on. It's actually mad that it's free.

Now we are even praising Kim Jong UN cronies in this thread, wow !

Eh? dont get it! 

 

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Maybe it's then just more how it looks, that when he does miss it is poor but he still gets his fair share.  I'm never confident of him scoring one on one or when he has time to think about it, in mind now I can remember some occasions when I remember him looking like a deer in headlights but the stats say overall he scores what he is expected to score.  For me though he works hard and is all over the pitch but not always in the position to score and I dont think he fits Gerrard's system.  I'm still worried he hit his ceiling and thus that and not imo not fitting Gerrard's system that if a big bid came in for him and Gerrard had somebody in mind to replace him then I would sell him 

Fair enough. FWIW my gut feeling is that there is more performance to unlock with him. 

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, paul514 said:

So Bissouma has gone to Spurs for 25-30m so you can strike that from our list.

Good signing for them, that. 

[nick76]

Just now, HKP90 said:

Fair enough. FWIW my gut feeling is that there is more performance to unlock with him. 

I hope so if he stays and we dont get somebody else in.  I worry he was a one season wonder and now defenders know how to play him or that he was only that good because of Jack or he's just gone off the boil.  I hope it's the other way and last was just a blip and next season he can develop a lot further.  My gut feel is that Gerrard is going to bring somebody in up front.  I have no idea who or where from it's just my gut feel.

[Mazrim]

Re: Bissouma. We'll see who we get and then judge. I'm not that fussed at the moment.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mazrim

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Eh? dont get it! 

 

I got back to the party late, as I had things to do.

However, unless the posts have now been deleted, a few of the pages from last night were a bit mental.

I was just following the theme, however, as usual, seems my timing might be way off again .

I'm in terrible form these days.

[duke313]

6 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Re: Bissouma. We'll see who we get and then judge. I'm not that fussed at the moment.

We'll end up with Oxlade-Chamberlain now

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Translates to -

Galatasaray started negotiations with Mahmoud Trezeguet. The player will be offered an annual salary of 1.8M € . If it is understood, the transfer bargain with Aston Villa will begin. Aston Villa expects a figure of 5-6M € for Trezeguet

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Re: Bissouma. We'll see who we get and then judge. I'm not that fussed at the moment.

You expecting another DCM then? My feeling (based on absolutely nothing), is that with Kamara and Nakamba in, we were never in the running for Bissouma, and that SG will leave the Midfield as is, with McGinn and Luiz (if he stays) fighting for the No. 8 spot. Of course if Dougie goes, we will get someone else. 

[Mazrim]

18 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

You expecting another DCM then? My feeling (based on absolutely nothing), is that with Kamara and Nakamba in, we were never in the running for Bissouma, and that SG will leave the Midfield as is, with McGinn and Luiz (if he stays) fighting for the No. 8 spot. Of course if Dougie goes, we will get someone else. 

Bissouma isn't a DM strictly speaking so no, I'm expecting a player who can support Kamara in defensive duties and link up play. I don't think there's any chance we leave the midfield as it is.

Iroegbunam should be Kamara's back up, not Nakamba, Luiz should be kept as a #8 to duke it out with McGinn from the bench. A new #8 then basically. If Luiz or McGinn go its not the end of the world. Just get another in or concentrate on Chukwuemeka's development.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mazrim

[allani]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Maybe it's then just more how it looks, that when he does miss it is poor but he still gets his fair share.  I'm never confident of him scoring one on one or when he has time to think about it, in mind now I can remember some occasions when I remember him looking like a deer in headlights but the stats say overall he scores what he is expected to score.  For me though he works hard and is all over the pitch but not always in the position to score and I dont think he fits Gerrard's system.  I'm still worried he hit his ceiling and thus that and not imo not fitting Gerrard's system that if a big bid came in for him and Gerrard had somebody in mind to replace him then I would sell him 

I am exactly in this position too.  The role Ollie had under Deano suited him much better - he was expected to drift wide and exploit the flanks.  This also worked because it meant we often had Ollie and Jack close together attacking the space between the full-back and the centre-back.  We played a different type of press and Ollie leading that was important.  However, a couple of things stuck out even then.  Pretty sure he only scored more than 1 goal in a match twice all season (admittedly Liverpool and Arsenal), his record of scoring in back-to-back games was also surprisingly low.  He wasn't as good last season - maybe he was unsettled by the arrival of Ings, maybe becoming a father had an impact too.  But I think his decision making on and off the ball from an attacking perspective is really poor.  I don't think he is on the same wavelength as Couts or Emi2 (certainly not as much so as Ings) and I genuinely think our new system is looking for a more instinctive player whose job will primarily be to work the edge of the penalty area and put the ball in the back of the net.  So I am struggling to see how he suddenly fixes that.

Just looking through some stats for last season.  Despite playing nearly 700 minutes longer Ollie only managed 1 more shot than Mason Mount,  1 more shot on target than James Maddison, fewer shots on target than Jarrod Bowen (in almost the same number of minutes).  He managed less than 1 shot on target per match - one of the lowest numbers in the top 20 scorers in the division.  I just don't think that is what the system Gerrard is trying to adopt is looking for.  It feels like we're more geared up for a Michael Owen type striker - someone for whom 90% of the focus is on trying to score goals.  With a more powerful midfield (hopefully) I just don't think the things that Ollie is very good at are our top priority any more.

If we don't sell him then I hope he makes me eat my words by becoming one of the top scorers in the league next season.  And before someone says but he was only 5 goals off being in the top 5 last season - just look at the number of minutes he played compared to those above him in the scoring charts.  Only Harry Kane played more minutes and 50% of the players above him played 700 minutes fewer.

[duke313]

8 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Bissouma isn't a DM strictly speaking so no, I'm expecting a player who can support Kamara in defensive duties and link up play. I don't think there's any chance we leave the midfield as it is.

Iroegbunam should be Kamara's back up, not Kamara, Luiz should be kept as a #8 to duke it out with McGinn from the bench. A new #8 then basically.

Well he is and he isn't, he plays both as a DM or as a defensive CM in a double pivot.  He's the type of player we are missing though in the midfield three, Kamara as the #6, a #6/8 hybrid like Bissouma and and #8.