rodders0223 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 By 20 years old I'd conquered the world, myself. I mean, sure, I still lived in my mums box room and was walking to my minimum wage job but I'd cracked it for sure. This lad has done "fook all" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 hours ago, useless said: Why would Emery bring Iro on instead of Dendoncker, if we're bringing on Dendoncker it's obviously to help us protect a lead, Dendoncker is an experienced Premier League player and a Belgium international many times over, he's also an out and out DM, which Iroegbunam is not, so of course he's going to come on ahead of Iroegbunam. Iroegbunam might develop into a more traditional DM, maybe that's the plan, he's got the attributes, but I think he's much more of an 'eight' than many seem to realize, he's probably more likely to come on in games for Luiz, Tielemans, Ramsey, or McGinn, than he is for Kamara at the moment, so I'm pretty sure we will be signing a more specialist DM as backup to Kamara, or I would be surprised if we didn't Yeah I think he's most similar to Luiz among our players. In terms of a player who is good defensively, has a good work rate is very comfortable under pressure and has the quality of unlock things around the box. Whether that will translate to the prem is a question. I hope Tim + Luiz will be good enough defensively if Kamara can't play or is subbed off. But I do think Kamara + Tim would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Barely seen him this season, (had injury problems at the start too) some people seem to be having massive, sudden and unrealistic expectations of this kid right now… because many realise how light we are but.. not sure he’s ready for that and he needs time to develop… also not a DM and we need to be patient with him. Probably still a possibility that he goes out on loan, at least, if we manage to sign someone more suitable/necessary… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 9 hours ago, Jas10 said: Barely seen him this season, (had injury problems at the start too) some people seem to be having massive, sudden and unrealistic expectations of this kid right now… because many realise how light we are but.. not sure he’s ready for that and he needs time to develop… also not a DM and we need to be patient with him. Probably still a possibility that he goes out on loan, at least, if we manage to sign someone more suitable/necessary… We won't know how good he is unless we play him. Dendoncker has barely played this season. As others have said if Tim can't cover the minimal minutes that Dendoncker would have played, then he's not cut out for this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 24 minutes ago, duke313 said: We won't know how good he is unless we play him. Dendoncker has barely played this season. As others have said if Tim can't cover the minimal minutes that Dendoncker would have played, then he's not cut out for this level. To repeat myself again, if we had a better option than Dendoncker (who hasn’t impressed under Unai and was clearly not favoured) then that player would have played more… someone with more and better attribute more suited to Unai’s style and system and could do a similar job to Bouba - which Leander wasn’t capable of. Youri and Leander were given a chance against Everton in the league cup and were atrocious, they cost us. Since then, the former has been moved into and looked much better in an attacking position and the latter has been less involved until Bouba was suspended… and we struggled in those games.. Chambers was poor against Legia and hasn’t had a look-in since. Moving McGinn into the double pivot and/or pushing Luiz back to DM has hindered us and their games - we’ve watched it happen. We can’t place such high and consistent demands on the same players week in, week out imo. Need them energised and playing in best positions to excel… If Tim was a better option, he would have played more or rather than Leander and he is still young and developing (and also not an actual DM according to many and how he played out on loan)… however, he has had injury trouble too so could be a bit more involved going forwards but… I maintain, we need another option (a proper DM to back up or push Kamara) and need to have rest and rotation options… we need to keep players relatively fresh and avoid burnout… I’ve gone into too much detail and am labouring the point… it’s just my view and it’s not going to change anytime soon. Each to their own… Tim has been reported as available for loan and even sale with buyback since preseason too… I would’ve expected him to have been more involved if he is really in our first team plans for the remainder of the season but… let’s see. We can’t really second-guess Unai… but my hope is that we’re stronger for the remainder rather than weaker… it just wouldn’t make sense for us to intentionally deplete the squad and make life harder when we have so much to play for. Edited January 25 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, Jas10 said: To repeat myself again, if we had a better option than Dendoncker (who hasn’t impressed under Unai and was clearly not favoured) then that player would have played more… if Tim was a better option, he would have played more or rather than Leander and he is still young and developing (and also not an actual DM according to many and how he played out on loan)… he has had injury trouble too so could be a bit more involved going forwards but… I can’t comment too much on Tim but the financial realities of player dealings mean this isn’t always the case. We know that signing middling players blocks the path of potentially great youth - that’s always been the case. If you have Dendoncker as an asset with a relatively large transfer fee, wages etc, sometimes you have to play him with a view to moving him on even if he’s not in your plans - otherwise you end up with a bomb squad scenario. I think that pragmatism is a strength of Emery actually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Iroegbunam hasn't played more because he missed pre-season and then has been injured during the season, and also he's nothing like Dendoncker, not sure why people keep thinking he is, he's as much like Jacob Ramsey as he is Dendoncker, if not more so, when he was doing well at QPR, he was playing in position closer to Ramsey's role for us, than he was to how Kamara or Dendoncker play, even when he was playing in a two man central midfield, he wasn't the main DM, that was Sam Field, Iro was closer to how Luiz plays for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Adam2003 said: I can’t comment too much on Tim but the financial realities of player dealings mean this isn’t always the case. We know that signing middling players blocks the path of potentially great youth - that’s always been the case. If you have Dendoncker as an asset with a relatively large transfer fee, wages etc, sometimes you have to play him with a view to moving him on even if he’s not in your plans - otherwise you end up with a bomb squad scenario. I think that pragmatism is a strength of Emery actually. I’ve discussed this too much now, esp over in the transfer thread, just repeating myself constantly… my tune isn’t going to change no matter what others say… even if I see their point. We need better options and more for Unai to work with… our squad is light and limited and in comparison to the teams around us.. but Unai is incredible… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, useless said: Iroegbunam hasn't played more because he missed pre-season and then has been injured during the season, and also he's nothing like Dendoncker, not sure why people keep thinking he is, he's as much like Jacob Ramsey as he is Dendoncker, if not more so, when he was doing well at QPR, he was playing in position closer to Ramsey's role for us, than he was to how Kamara or Dendoncker play, even when he was playing in a two man central midfield, he wasn't the main DM, that was Sam Field, Iro was closer to how Luiz plays for us So… that highlights the need for a DM signing even more… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 minutes ago, useless said: Iroegbunam hasn't played more because he missed pre-season and then has been injured during the season, and also he's nothing like Dendoncker, not sure why people keep thinking he is, he's as much like Jacob Ramsey as he is Dendoncker, if not more so, when he was doing well at QPR, he was playing in position closer to Ramsey's role for us, than he was to how Kamara or Dendoncker play, even when he was playing in a two man central midfield, he wasn't the main DM, that was Sam Field, Iro was closer to how Luiz plays for us He doesn't need to be like Dendoncker, he (ideally) needs to be like Kamara. If we don't sign a DM and Tim remains at the club, Emery obviously see's him being able to cover one of the positions in the pivot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I'd have liked to have seen him start at Boro, was he even on the bench for that? Seems to be on the bench for one game and then disappear from the squad for a few weeks so it's either little niggles he's picking up or not training that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: I'd have liked to have seen him start at Boro, was he even on the bench for that? Seems to be on the bench for one game and then disappear from the squad for a few weeks so it's either little niggles he's picking up or not training that well. Haven’t see enough of Tim to form a proper opinion or judgement but… this wouldn’t be the first time we’ve overhyped or overrated one of our young players… or expected too much too soon… He has had injury issues (back injury during preseason when he wasn’t involved at all) but has also been available more recently and only got a few mins against Manure… He may be more involved (great, that means Unai rates him) but… even with him, we’re still light in midfield and defensively more than anything else… I can’t imagine we allowed Donk to leave without lining up a proper replacement and upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 As it stands I'm pretty sure Chambers would be more likely to play as a DM than Iroegbunam If Dendoncker goes I would be very surprised if a replacement isn't brought in And that's not because Iroegbunam is a bad player, it's because he isn't an out and out DM in the same vein as Kamara or Dendoncker, If you were to play him and Luiz as a central two, we would probably have to ask Luiz to play as the more defensive of the two Iro is a versatile midfielder, that can play various positions, including wide midfielder, box-to-box midfieler, or as a central midfielder in a double pivot, so him staying makes sense as there is a lot of scope for him to get game time, I doubt the only reason for him staying is because Dendoncker is leaving He could well devlop into a more traditoinal DM, he's got some of the attributes needed, my point is he hasn't played much as one, so far in his career, and in a way to hold him back would be a shame, because he really does have another side to his game which I think might surprise people if he's given a chance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, useless said: Iro is a versatile midfielder, that can play various positions, including wide midfielder, box-to-box midfieler, or as a central midfielder in a double pivot, so him staying makes sense as there is a lot of scope for him to get game time, I doubt the only reason for him staying is because Dendoncker is leaving He could well devlop into a more traditoinal DM, he's got some of the attributes needed, my point is he hasn't played much as one, so far in his career, and in a way to hold him back would be a shame, because he really does have another side to his game which I think might surprise people if he's given a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 When he started v Norwich in April 2022 he was at DM. Certainly it was a very safe debut with little forward runs. I guess given his overall profile of being more like Ramsey it begs the question of do we sell him in the summer like JPB or Archer with a buy back clause. Or do we keep him around with the expectation he'll be Ramsey's eventual successor as that's what a Brighton or Brentford would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 13 minutes ago, VillaChris said: When he started v Norwich in April 2022 he was at DM. Certainly it was a very safe debut with little forward runs. I guess given his overall profile of being more like Ramsey it begs the question of do we sell him in the summer like JPB or Archer with a buy back clause. Or do we keep him around with the expectation he'll be Ramsey's eventual successor as that's what a Brighton or Brentford would do. Tim I think we will keep. Archer I don’t think was rated by Unai. JPB was rated but didn’t want to wait around for a spot to open up. Tim’s already seen minutes ahead of Chambers (though I forget if Chambers even travelled for United) so I think we will see how he developed. As @useless said, he’s multi-positional, which Unai loves as opposed to poacher Archer or winger JPB. Edited January 25 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 If he's got the ball retention Dendonker lacks Emery might fancy a project. Unless it goes horribly wrong it can only increase his profile/sell on potential. Archer netted us £20m odd with a handful of appearances. If him and/or Bogarde can make the step up it would save us a lot of pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Well behind the paywall of the Express and Star Emery expands a bit on Tim. Paraphrasing here but it says that he has been keeping his eye on Tim and his coaches have during training and they feel he can progress and perhaps more now Donk is leaving. So good news for him. Which makes sense as he has far more to him than Donk has in terms of positions he can play. He has such good balance for a biggun and a real change of pace. Just a shame its been so long since we saw it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: If he's got the ball retention Dendonker lacks Emery might fancy a project. Unless it goes horribly wrong it can only increase his profile/sell on potential. Archer netted us £20m odd with a handful of appearances. If him and/or Bogarde can make the step up it would save us a lot of pennies. Thats the one thing he has always needed improvement on. The last few months Emery would have been working him hard to improve it i guess. Put it this way. If Duran is a possibly really good number 9 because of his natural attributes, then the same can be said of Tim because of his. Very rare to find his stature with such good agility and balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 19 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Well behind the paywall of the Express and Star Emery expands a bit on Tim. Paraphrasing here but it says that he has been keeping his eye on Tim and his coaches have during training and they feel he can progress and perhaps more now Donk is leaving. So good news for him. Which makes sense as he has far more to him than Donk has in terms of positions he can play. He has such good balance for a biggun and a real change of pace. Just a shame its been so long since we saw it. Can you share the exact quotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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