Ratings & Reactions: Liverpool v Villa

[Philosopher]

2 minutes ago, skell said:

I love this post and it is spot on

 We.absolutely need a dominant midfielder, we have for 3 years. This would clearly help massivley. However, I'm going to simplify your post because I believe that having 2 quality wingers would mean that all the above problems would be solved.

Basically, quite rightly no one (players or fans) has confidence in elghazi or trez.or.traore. If we had 2 quality players in these positions and Grealish as a 10 it would allow these players to receive the ball,  retain the ball and make.something happen. The full backs would push on with confidence. We would attack with purpose. The problem would be solved.

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

[vreitti]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

or Ratings ,Reactions and discussions.

just read the ones where the posters wax lyrical over our defeat....and ignore the rest, that predominately make sense.

I thought, it might be a bit heavy going for some.

There are discussions and then there are 'discussions'. I probably don't have to tell you that.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, roonst83 said:

I wasnt suggesting you are or aren’t usually positive. I don’t know you atall. It’s just opinions and reactions in general are more rife after a loss. 

I’m gutted with the loss and how it unfolded but we weren’t being peppered all second half and came closer than Liverpool to scoring through Trezzy’s effort off the post, before they bagged the winner. In my opinion, and that’s all it is, we were far from poor and I doubt people would’ve felt the same had Trezzy had scored and Trent hadn’t. Fine margins which we were on the wrong end of. 

 

I haven't seen the stats, but I think a below par Liverpool, did have too many shots at us, for my liking.

If Trezzy had of scored,and we got the draw,  the response would have been one of delight, and the perfomance details would have been achived in our mind, marked "for another day".....There was enough poor play to occupy the mind of any discerning fan.

Even the ones amongst us who like to analyse the perfomances, have to enjoy them too......and winning does that, with the above proviso.

[skell]

7 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

One of the problems is that go back too often and play it safe. This compounds the issue we have playing out. The better wingers point means we will be on the front foot more and have more world.an 'out ball'  and instead of.playing backwards we go forwards. Ultimately we would have to play it.our of.defence about 20 times less a game. Of course having grealish to take it.off a defender practically solves.the problem. We.just need.better players

[TRO]

Just now, vreitti said:

There are discussions and then there are 'discussions'. I probably don't have to tell you that.

you seemed to lump them all in, sorry if there is a distinction, you failed to mention at first.

[dcdedi]

3 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Is this true? Do you have a source? 

 

[skell]

12 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

Also, if.Jack is.out we play mcginn there.  Anyway, who these 2.great wingers are I have no idea but I'm.sure it would alleviate the problem

[TRO]

1 minute ago, skell said:

One of the problems is that go back too often and play it safe. This compounds the issue we have playing out. The better wingers point means we will be on the front foot more and have more world.an 'out ball'  and instead of.playing backwards we go forwards. Ultimately we would have to play it.our of.defence about 20 times less a game. Of course having grealish to take it.off a defender practically solves.the problem. We.just need.better players

I think the better wingers have players behind them they can trust to win the ball back, when they lose it.....subsequently, they don't lose it,as often.

[skell]

Just now, TRO said:

I think the better wingers have players behind them they can trust to win the ball back, when they lose it.....subsequently, they don't lose it,as often.

Absolutely.  We are not far off. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, dcdedi said:

 

I guess its the catching up, we have to do....but these things will be looked at with a microscope eventually.

[Tomaszk]

Jesus.

I really hope everyone managed to enjoy the last few years.

What a waste of time following a team if you didn't.

[turvontour]

3 hours ago, Chindie said:

Martinez - not much more he could do

Cash - solid on a difficult day

Konsa - solid

Mings - dropped a clanger, got away with it, guy his pointing hand.

Targett - usual good performance

Nakamba - the only midfielder that could make a tackle, then inexplicably brought off.

Luis - phantom injury, a couple of nice touches, not much else.

McGinn - usual hustle but couldn't control the ball and despite making the goal, vanished.

Traore - appallingly bad. Didn't want to be there, clearly, did nothing right, awful.

Watkins - scored, hard work, not much else

Trez - usual work rate, incredibly unlucky to score, and then seemingly a bad injury. Despite his limitations, I hope he's not out for long - he actually works when others seemingly can't be arsed. Even when he's crap.

Barkley - he's done. Does nothing, gets a brilliant chance to at least shoot, somehow doesn't, they score with their next attack. I kinda never want to see him in a Villa shirt again.

El Ghazi - looked like a footballer for brief glimpses, which is more than can be said for Traore

Ramsey - looked bright in glimpses

We've thrown this game away. Liverpool are no great shakes at the moment, and defensively are suspect. So we just doesn't all match giving the ball away and doing very little. Then we score and come out to a second half where Liverpool turn the screw and look barely arsed. Of course they score. We get back to our get for a few minutes and do nothing with it, summed up by Barkley refusing to take a shot staring him in the face, and we lose.

That first sub was wrong. Barkley should not have come on, Nakamba shouldn't have come off.  Traore needed to come off long before he did as he was a large part of the reason our attack was so bad and Liverpool's domination down the right was so absolute.

This season just needs to end now. Half the team are on the beach already, we aren't making Europe, and without Grealish we're pretty crap.

You say Traore didnt want to be there, and that's how I see it too unfortunately. 

[vreitti]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

you seemed to lump them all in, sorry if there is a distinction, you failed to mention at first.

I just don't understand the many people on here that seem to crave instant success, and just endlessly moan at everything. 

Whilst I'm gutted about the result tonight, I'm over the moon with our season, and more generally where we're at, and where we're heading. For me, there's just so much to be excited about, disregarding recent form of course.

Fwiw I thought we had spells today, where we looked competitive and good. People keep mentioning form and what not. Last I looked Pool are the reining champions, and it took a last minute goal for them to beat us. If that's not progress, I don't know what is.

I fully intend to enjoy the rest of the season, and I suspect I'll mainly have to keep away from here. Probably not a big loss to anyone. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by vreitti

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, skell said:

I love this post and it is spot on

 We.absolutely need a dominant midfielder, we have for 3 years. This would clearly help massivley. However, I'm going to simplify your post because I believe that having 2 quality wingers would mean that all the above problems would be solved.

Basically, quite rightly no one (players or fans) has confidence in elghazi or trez.or.traore. If we had 2 quality players in these positions and Grealish as a 10 it would allow these players to receive the ball,  retain the ball and make.something happen. The full backs would push on with confidence. We would attack with purpose. The problem would be solved.

didn't we think we was signing quality, when we bought Traore and Trez, I seem to remember some pretty bullish remarks about both players.

not to labour the point, but the dominant midfielder, would compliment them.....if a winger has to keep coming back to get the ball, as opposed to being played in by the said player, he will be neglecting his forward position and his confidence will drain eventually.

I am not saying, they themselves are not part of the problem, but I think its deeper than that.

When we had our halcyon days....Morley was played in much further forward, by Mortimer, Cowans and Bremner....He switched wings too for effect...we played with one winger.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I just don't understand the many people on here that seem to crave instant success, and just endlessly moan at everything. 

Whilst I'm gutted about the result tonight, I'm over the moon with our season, and more generally where we're at, and where we're heading. For me, there's just so much to be excited about, disregarding recent form of course.

Fwiw I thought we had spells today, where we looked competitive and good. People keep mentioning form and what not. Last I looked Pool are the reining champions, and it took a last minute goal for them to beat us. If that's not progress, I don't know what is.

I fully intend to enjoy the rest of the season, and I suspect I'll mainly have to keep away from here. Probably not a big loss to anyone. 

Oh Thats sad.

I think everyone makes a valid contribution, opinions vary, but we learn from each other.

by all means, be happy, for our season, but we are discussing todays game.....Yeah, I am miffed too, but having watched the game, the result did not surprise me.

I predicted we would finish 12th so I too am on target, but earlier in the season, I think we could have been in a slightly better placing had we of maintained our form....Jack has been a huge miss, but if we keep raising that, questions will be asked of what are we doing with the rest of the squad....I would suspect Dean is fed up of that line too.

We had an international Defender making another ricket today, I think these things are worthy of discussion....and such basic errors are naturally being questioned.

but UTV

[AntrimBlack]

47 minutes ago, vreitti said:

This thread should be renamed "ratings and overreactions".

Honestly I despair. Why y'all support Villa, I will never understand. 

 

So your definition of `supporting' Aston Villa is not to be critical of the team or performances?

[The Fun Factory]

55 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not sure about that. For the problem remains getting the ball out of defense. Now you could have Jack dropping deep the pick the ball up, but then you have him deeper than you'd like. Basically if Jack got injured you'd still have a problem keeping the ball and playing out of defense, particularly if your wingers are pacy direct types. All you need to do is drop deep give no space in behind, and the attack is nullified if Jack is out. What you'd have to do if Jack got injured is drop Watkins and play Wesley or Davis, but that is hard to do.

The passing needs work. It would also still be a little vulnerable to teams like Burnley who his longs balls to two big men up top.

Yes. Do you think we need to get a good DM next season? For all of his work rate I don't think Nakamba is good enough and personally I don't really think Luiz or McCann are natural defensive midfielders. 

[Philosopher]

2 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Yes. Do you think we need to get a good DM next season? For all of his work rate I don't think Nakamba is good enough and personally I don't really think Luiz or McCann are natural defensive midfielders. 

Yep, for sure. We need a top class specialist there. Someone more dominant than Nakamba and a better passer to boot. Nakamba is a poor striker of a football. He can pass short, but anything longer is terrible.

[roonst83]

42 minutes ago, TRO said:

I haven't seen the stats, but I think a below par Liverpool, did have too many shots at us, for my liking.

If Trezzy had of scored,and we got the draw,  the response would have been one of delight, and the perfomance details would have been achived in our mind, marked "for another day".....There was enough poor play to occupy the mind of any discerning fan.

Even the ones amongst us who like to analyse the perfomances, have to enjoy them too......and winning does that, with the above proviso.

I know what you (and others) are saying. Opinions are always split and, as such, what constitutes someone being discerning is completely subjective and as we’ve both said, the outcome and result will skew people’s take on performances. 

I personally think it was a much better showing that at Newcastle and Sheff Utd. We looked more of a threat when we got into dangerous areas but we lacked key decision making as I stated. That said, I think we were sloppy in places and so were our opposition. I’m far from pleased with the result, of course. I just think the performance against a team with some top players, wasn’t as bad as some people feel. We were much more troubled and Martinez was much more worked against Southampton away than we were today. 

 

 

[vreitti]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

We had an international Defender making another ricket today, I think these things are worthy of discussion....and such basic errors are naturally being questioned.

Absolutely, and I've got no problem with that whatsoever.