Formula One - 2021

[BOF]

12 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

So you weren't allowed to go over track limits at that corner in qualifying, but you were in the race. Until half way through when you weren't. But the drivers did anyway and that was ok. But then Max exceeded those track limits overtaking Lewis and that was then not allowed.

Glad to see the rules have been ironed out for this season.

You were allowed go over the track limits in the race if you were in a Mercedes. But as soon as Red Bull told Max to start doing the same thing, it shone a spotlight on it which seemed to give the stewards a kick in the hole, whereby they decided you can't.  So great, Merc get the advantage for half a race and Red Bull get to join them for maybe 2 or 3 laps. In a race where Merc won by less than a second...

[AVFCDAN]

Didn’t see much of him but that was a cracking race from Norris, he seems to have the laid back character but there’s a bloody good driver there as well. He will be on it this season, although I expect Daniel will beat him over the season as a whole his stock will rise immensely even if he keeps it tight. If he manages to beat him in the standings it will be interesting who might come calling although he might well be in the 3rd placed team already.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, BOF said:

You were allowed go over the track limits in the race if you were in a Mercedes. But as soon as Red Bull told Max to start doing the same thing, it shone a spotlight on it which seemed to give the stewards a kick in the hole, whereby they decided you can't.  So great, Merc get the advantage for half a race and Red Bull get to join them for maybe 2 or 3 laps. In a race where Merc won by less than a second...

I got the impression that's what Red Bull wanted though. Max wasn't extending and was adamant it was illegal, so the radio message was a bit of a dig to force the stewards to stop Mercedes doing it.

Then ironically it was that exact part of the track that meant they couldn't do the overtake.

I wonder if they'd never said anything whether they'd have gotten away with it

[BOF]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

I got the impression that's what Red Bull wanted though. Max wasn't extending and was adamant it was illegal, so the radio message was a bit of a dig to force the stewards to stop Mercedes doing it.

Then ironically it was that exact part of the track that meant they couldn't do the overtake.

I wonder if they'd never said anything whether they'd have gotten away with it

Oh absolutely that's what they were doing. But the stewards shouldn't have changed it. By changing it they were admitting they were sleeping on the job up to that point. If it's good for MErc for the first half then it should have been good for everyone beyond that point. They changed the goalposts - or rather they decided to start enforcing the goal posts - half way through the race and that's not fair.

[Stevo985]

Just now, BOF said:

Oh absolutely that's what they were doing. But the stewards shouldn't have changed it. By changing it they were admitting they were sleeping on the job up to that point. If it's good for MErc for the first half then it should have been good for everyone beyond that point. They changed the goalposts - or rather they decided to start enforcing the goal posts - half way through the race and that's not fair.

Yeah I agree with that. I just don't think it was a case of the stewards favouring Mercedes, it was a case of them having their error pointed out to them and them (wrongly) changing it halfway through. It's not fair but I don't think it was a case of them being fine with it while Merc were doing it and then stopping other teams doing it. That was the result, sure, but not the intention, imo.

[BOF]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

Yeah I agree with that. I just don't think it was a case of the stewards favouring Mercedes, it was a case of them having their error pointed out to them and them (wrongly) changing it halfway through. It's not fair but I don't think it was a case of them being fine with it while Merc were doing it and then stopping other teams doing it. That was the result, sure, but not the intention, imo.

No I agree they weren't knowingly turning a blind eye to Merc, but they were obviously seeing it and had decided it was OK.  Hamilton even commented "I've been doing it all race" when he was told to stop.  The irony being that the rules stated 'if you gain a lasting advantage'. I'd say adding up all the time they gained by doing it and winning the race like that is a pretty great lasting advantage.  But anyway, that's that dump out of the way. On to the next.

[YouUnastanFren]

Vettel is not mentally as tough as you'd expect from someone who won the title from behind the way he did in 2010. He has visibly given up when pressured by a fast teammate several times.

With a well balanced car leading from pole he's about as quick as anyone but as soon as there is any kind of adversity he crumbles. Doesn't seem to have the same adaptability and racing instincts as any of the greats (HAM and ALO included).

I think his ability to extract maximum performance in perfect conditions was more down to his work ethic on analysis and understanding of engineering rather than a 'feel'. It's why he doesn't do well in the wet imo.

[Stevo985]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

No I agree they weren't knowingly turning a blind eye to Merc, but they were obviously seeing it and had decided it was OK.  Hamilton even commented "I've been doing it all race" when he was told to stop.  The irony being that the rules stated 'if you gain a lasting advantage'. I'd say adding up all the time they gained by doing it and winning the race like that is a pretty great lasting advantage.  But anyway, that's that dump out of the way. On to the next.

Yeah if they weren't gaining an advantage they wouldn't' be doing it

They seem to really just define gaining an advantage as passing someone

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Vettel is not mentally as tough as you'd expect from someone who won the title from behind the way he did in 2010. He has visibly given up when pressured by a fast teammate several times.

With a well balanced car leading from pole he's about as quick as anyone but as soon as there is any kind of adversity he crumbles. Doesn't seem to have the same adaptability and racing instincts as any of the greats (HAM and ALO included).

I think his ability to extract maximum performance in perfect conditions was more down to his work ethic on analysis and understanding of engineering rather than a 'feel'. It's why he doesn't do well in the wet imo.

I've predicted that Aston will disappoint this season owing to a combination of driver line-up and designing their own car rather than nicking Merc's. And now that they're a full works team with the backing of Lawrence Stroll it's much easier to root against them than it was when they were the plucky over-achieving privateer.  So yeah, I'm going to take a little bit of joy from them doing badly this season.

[YouUnastanFren]

5 minutes ago, BOF said:

No I agree they weren't knowingly turning a blind eye to Merc, but they were obviously seeing it and had decided it was OK.  Hamilton even commented "I've been doing it all race" when he was told to stop.  The irony being that the rules stated 'if you gain a lasting advantage'. I'd say adding up all the time they gained by doing it and winning the race like that is a pretty great lasting advantage.  But anyway, that's that dump out of the way. On to the next.

According to Leclerc and Norris the drivers were told in the briefing that they could do whatever they liked at turn 4 as long as they weren't overtaking for some reason.

With hindsight that seems stupid, not sure if that's Masi's fault or if he just got bad advice from someone.

[YouUnastanFren]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

I've predicted that Aston will disappoint this season owing to a combination of driver line-up and designing their own car rather than nicking Merc's. And now that they're a full works team with the backing of Lawrence Stroll it's much easier to root against them than it was when they were the plucky over-achieving privateer.  So yeah, I'm going to take a little bit of joy from them doing badly this season.

Me too. The way they ditched Checo only for him to end up in a way better seat was delicious as well.

[BOF]

Just now, YouUnastanFren said:

According to Leclerc and Norris the drivers were told in the briefing that they could do whatever they liked at turn 4 as long as they weren't overtaking for some reason.

With hindsight that seems stupid, not sure if that's Masi's fault or if he just got bad advice from someone.

Masi has shown a few times that he's a bit of an idiot. Letting cars go out on track last season to start a session when a car was being retrieved.  Also the alleged shorter warning times for safety cars ending which contributed towards  the Mugello pile-up.  The buck stops with him and if the message isn't clear coming from the FIA - and it clearly **** wasn't in this case - then he needs to accept the blame.  Bahrain is a bit of a mess and it's a less than savoury destination so I'm glad it's over with now.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

According to Leclerc and Norris the drivers were told in the briefing that they could do whatever they liked at turn 4 as long as they weren't overtaking for some reason.

With hindsight that seems stupid, not sure if that's Masi's fault or if he just got bad advice from someone.

I don't really understand why they would allow that kind of track extension at any corner of any track. It's always going to provide an advantage so I'm not sure why it would ever be explicitly allowed

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Me too. The way they ditched Checo only for him to end up in a way better seat was delicious as well.

That's a big contributing factor too. They only exist because he went to court to save them. They can frankly rot at the back for all I care  

[Stevo985]

I watched the F2 this weekend as well and it was extremely enjoyable.

I found the first sprint race quite hard to follow not knowing any of the teams or the racers, especially with some teams having similar or even identical liveries. I still don't understand why there are multiple Red Bull liveries but none of the teams are RedBull. Something to do with the drivers being Red Bull Academy drivers? Especially confusing as Carlin seemed to change Liveries for the feature race!

Once I got a bit more used to it though it was fine. The second sprint race and the feature race were both excellent. The shorter format (I didn't realise that even the feature race would be quite short) makes it much easier for a casual viewer

 

Enjoyed it, I'll be tuning in for the rest of the season for sure

[BOF]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I watched the F2 this weekend as well and it was extremely enjoyable.

I found the first sprint race quite hard to follow not knowing any of the teams or the racers, especially with some teams having similar or even identical liveries. I still don't understand why there are multiple Red Bull liveries but none of the teams are RedBull. Something to do with the drivers being Red Bull Academy drivers? Especially confusing as Carlin seemed to change Liveries for the feature race!

Once I got a bit more used to it though it was fine. The second sprint race and the feature race were both excellent. The shorter format (I didn't realise that even the feature race would be quite short) makes it much easier for a casual viewer

Enjoyed it, I'll be tuning in for the rest of the season for sure

I still think they've messed too much with the race format for the F2 weekend.  The Saturday is very unfair on the good qualifiers from Friday. Having two reverse grids is trying your damnedest to keep the quicker guys away from the front of the grid.  F2 doesn't need to artificially generate excitement to that extent. Have one reverse grid, fine.  But 2 is, I think, compromising the integrity of the championship just a bit too much because over the course of a season it's giving a lot of WDC points to guys who wouldn't otherwise be getting them.  And in a grid that's as tight and as stacked as this one, putting the pole sitter 10th and then reversing any progress he makes for Sprint 2 can genuinely affect a driver's ability to showcase his talents in a season that will affect his future prospects for F1. The 2 sprint races make up more points together than the feature race does this season, which means you have an artificial grid for more than 50% of the points on offer. That's veering towards lack of credibility - as exciting as it obviously is for people watching.  But we'll see how it all pans out. I know Tiff Needell has said as much on twitter too.

[BOF]

I also wasn't aware of the slight difference in safety car rules between F1 and F2. That doesn't make sense either.  You can't pit during a VSC in F2 but you can pit during a full safety car.  Because this one time, in band camp, pitting during a VSC changed the result of a race.  Yes, as would pitting during a full safety car had that happened on the day.  But that's a minor thing.

I thoroughly enjoyed the F2.  Oscar Piastri went way up in my estimation. He's already a class act and Shwartzman has his work cut out this season. Piastri showed great speed and racecraft save for that one silly moment when he didn't back down in the closing stages of the feature.  I was glad to see Dick Tantrum get 2nd place and Zhou did what he needed to.  Liam Lawson also impressed me as a rookie and it's good to see Armstrong make a strong start too. He needs to re-build his reputation this season after a terrible 2020.  Pourchaire was quick but unlucky and Drugovich looks like he'll be good again this season. Vips needs to stop stepping on black cats. He had a hilariously unlucky weekend and Lundgaard looks like he will as expected feature strongly in the title race.

[BOF]

So last season's entire thread was 32 pages, and that was a big one. We're at 12 after 1 race I know it'll go down from here cuz most of it is build-up discussion, but right now that's a good size  

[YouUnastanFren]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't really understand why they would allow that kind of track extension at any corner of any track. It's always going to provide an advantage so I'm not sure why it would ever be explicitly allowed

To be honest me neither, they could easily employ a three strikes system and use hawk eye to detect people with 4 wheels over.

I think their reasoning is that if someone legitimately ran wide they'd lose time and that's punishment enough but that is rarely the case on these tracks that look like they're drawn onto a car park with tarmac as far as the eye can see. They need more astro turf at the edges I think.

[YouUnastanFren]

The new F2 regs have effectively devalued the F2 title. If they don't change then the likelihood of the best driver winning is pretty slim I think.