paul514 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 5 minutes ago, allani said: That isn't what the rumour-mongers are suggesting though. The implication they are making (because it gets fans agitated) is that if we and Newcastle don't sell key players then we will be in breach of FFP and will be deducted 10 points next season. I don't think anyone on this forum has taken the view that - well if we sell Ramsey and sign £100m worth of players then that's a disaster. It's making "waves" because the implication is that we have to sell him and there will be no money available to sign other players. All I am saying is that I don't believe we need to sell Ramsey just to stay afloat and avoid a 10 point deduction. There is a difference between having no money (down to the owners) and having no money left for FFP. If we have to sell someone to comply for this season, then so be it, but no one knows that. Like the other guy said, almost everyone talking about FFP is talking about making a big profit on someone to create room for lots more spending on multiple players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The key word in all of this is "need". I don't think we need to sell any of our core players to comply with FFP. We might "choose" to sell a player because it allows us to cover FFP and fund other purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 24 minutes ago, paul514 said: not a chance of that being right. Easily believable. Spotrac, which is usually pretty accurate, has us 6th. Lenglet highest earner at the club which is why he definitely has to go back once Mings recovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 minutes ago, paul514 said: There is a difference between having no money (down to the owners) and having no money left for FFP. If we have to sell someone to comply for this season, then so be it, but no one knows that. Like the other guy said, almost everyone talking about FFP is talking about making a big profit on someone to create room for lots more spending on multiple players. I'm struggling to understand what point you think you are making. I mean at the top of this page you have posted: "I have no idea if we have to sell to comply, I don't think anyone does. I am pretty sure we need to sell players with book value profits to buy though." Which is exactly the same point I am making - except I'm saying that I don't believe that we do need to sell a key player in order to comply. The media and social-media posts aren't saying that clubs will need to sell players so that they can use the money and the FFP rules to fund more purchases. They are making sensational headlines about FFP compliance to scare fans into thinking that their teams could be hit with the same penalties as Everton and probably Forest have been this season. That's the bit that is mainly bull****. I am sure that there are some clubs that will be in that position but it won't be 17 or 18 clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 18 minutes ago, allani said: The key word in all of this is "need". I don't think we need to sell any of our core players to comply with FFP. We might "choose" to sell a player because it allows us to cover FFP and fund other purchases. Looking at publicly available figures, it appears to me that we need to generate around £50m profit on player sales in June to stay complaint with FFP this season. This would also explain why we extended our accounting period till the end of June this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 5 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Looking at publicly available figures, it appears to me that we need to generate around £50m profit on player sales in June to stay complaint with FFP this season. This would also explain why we extended our accounting period till the end of June this year. If that is true then why would anyone buy any of our players for £50m in June? It makes more sense for them to wait and sign them in July knowing that that also means that we start next season on -10 points (or maybe -6 if we can come up with a good enough story as to why we were unlucky to miss our numbers) or to make offers at massively below market value knowing that we'd have to accept them. I don't know when the Castore / Adidas deal switches over (I assume at the end of the season)? Might that not be a reason - especially as it looks like the new deal is significantly higher and so would be a big jump in revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The club said at the FAB meeting that the change in accounting period was down to it aligning with other contracts. Now I know they'd hardly say "we need as much time as possible because we're in a huge FFP hole". But I think that suggests (but could well be wrong!) that it would mean that the Adidas money could be added to this year's revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 minutes ago, allani said: If that is true then why would anyone buy any of our players for £50m in June? It makes more sense for them to wait and sign them in July knowing that that also means that we start next season on -10 points (or maybe -6 if we can come up with a good enough story as to why we were unlucky to miss our numbers) or to make offers at massively below market value knowing that we'd have to accept them. I don't know when the Castore / Adidas deal switches over (I assume at the end of the season)? Might that not be a reason - especially as it looks like the new deal is significantly higher and so would be a big jump in revenue. If you have 2 interested parties they will bid against each other and you still gonna get decent money for a player in June. Not as much as later on perhaps, but this is the mistake Forest made. They didn't want to sell Johnson in June for £40m, sold him in August for £50m and now face consequences. Not sure when Adidas deal comes in, but anyway it wouldn't be anywhere near to cover £50m gap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 5 minutes ago, allani said: The club said at the FAB meeting that the change in accounting period was down to it aligning with other contracts. Now I know they'd hardly say "we need as much time as possible because we're in a huge FFP hole". But I think that suggests (but could well be wrong!) that it would mean that the Adidas money could be added to this year's revenue? Hopefully along with other commerical deals. You think they could be selling Villa Park naming rights to cover it? Edited March 3 by Villa_Vids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 We don't need to sell a player before June to be under the PSR limit. If there was any chance of that we wouldn't have signed a bunch of players in January we had no pressing need to buy. There is a chance we might want to sell a player before June to help with the UEFA rules on allowable losses. However we would be fined for a first breach of that lower loss threshold so it's not do or die. Finally Adidas deal and hopefully CL money will make a huge difference to next season's finances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Finally Adidas deal and hopefully CL money will make a huge difference to next season's finances. Potential Champions League money doesnt get paid until the end of the competition - gate receipts we'd obviously get, but UEFA wont be giving us £50m this June. It'd be either at the end of the competition or when we're knocked out. If we need boosting this summer then we'd need to sell a big value player because CL money won't be coming in. In short, CL money won't be helpful to our FFP/PSR until 25/26. Edited March 3 by StewieGriffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 10 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said: Potential Champions League money doesnt get paid until the end of the competition - gate receipts we'd obviously get, but UEFA wont be giving us £50m this June. It'd be either at the end of the competition or when we're knocked out. If we need boosting this summer then we'd need to sell a big value player because CL money won't be coming in. In short, CL money won't be helpful to our FFP/PSR until 25/26. But Conference League money and improved PL position money will come in. Obviously, it won't be £50m but very £1m that comes in reduces any potential shortfall and potentially changes the type of transfers we might need to look at. Edited March 3 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 minutes ago, allani said: But Conference League money and improved PL position money will come in. Obviously, it won't be £50m but very £1m that comes in reduces any potential shortfall and potentially changes the type of transfers we might need to look at. I think it’s about £25m extra for the year if we go all the way and win the Conference League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 minutes ago, ender4 said: I think it’s about £25m extra for the year if we go all the way and win the Conference League Cup. Which goes a long way - especially if you then take the Adidas deal into consideration. Obviously it's not guaranteed yet but it seems like there are quite a few ways in which our revenue position could be much stronger that don't include having to sell key players just to avoid breaching the FFP limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, allani said: Which goes a long way - especially if you then take the Adidas deal into consideration. Obviously it's not guaranteed yet but it seems like there are quite a few ways in which our revenue position could be much stronger that don't include having to sell key players just to avoid breaching the FFP limits. Also the improvement from 7th to 4th in the league is an extra £7m in prize money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Maybe we should sell Newcastle Jacob RamSAY for 70 mill... The bloke alot of our fans seems to talk about. And keep Jacob Ramsey FFP Sorted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 36 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Maybe we should sell Newcastle Jacob RamSAY for 70 mill... The bloke alot of our fans seems to talk about. And keep Jacob Ramsey FFP Sorted. Can we sell them Madge Ramsay instead? You never know Jacob Ramsay might be quite decent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 One thing I keep seeing in this thread is some variant of 'qualifying for the Champions League will help', which obviously yes it will, but it's very very likely that we will fail to qualify next season so it's not a reliable revenue stream. We shouldn't be going out buying players on the assumption that repeated qualification for the CL will pay for them, if that's what pays for them then we can't afford them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 6 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Will sound stupid but I'd legit rather take a points deduction than to sell JJ to Newcastle or Luiz to Arsenal. 6 points, finish 5th, still get champions league. Not a bad idea 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 10 hours ago, StewieGriffin said: Potential Champions League money doesnt get paid until the end of the competition - gate receipts we'd obviously get, but UEFA wont be giving us £50m this June. It'd be either at the end of the competition or when we're knocked out. If we need boosting this summer then we'd need to sell a big value player because CL money won't be coming in. In short, CL money won't be helpful to our FFP/PSR until 25/26. Not true, the money from group stages is paid before end of year. It's factored in to the squad cost calcs for UEFA competition which are done on a calendar year basis. I said, this June stuff is a red herring. We do not need to sell players to get under PSR - the Premier League rules. The issue is the UEFA rules are coming in which has a lower loss limit and only covers 2 seasons. If we fail to get under that we get a fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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