RichW Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: Quiet before the storm...still a lot of people here burying their heads in the sand. People over the past month or so have tried to give a rough estimate of our FFP situation but I guess once the club have announced the accounts the experts will be able to paint the picture of our FFP situation more clearly. That Ramsey story coming out a few days before the window shut doesn’t seem random to me and maybe the club trying to soft leak the fact a key player will be sold this summer means fans expect it over the following 5 months rather than it being a shock. Think when the club announce the accounts the main headline will be record turnover but will try and shove the negative stuff at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 3 Moderator Share Posted March 3 48 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: We are not ****, we've been in situation for many years now. Basically our wages and amortisation are too high for the revenue we generate. You fill the gap by selling stuff for big profit. We kept being complaint in the championship by selling the stadium and in last few years by selling grealish. We will stay complaint by selling somebody else. Nothing new really. I guess there are two different things happening - filling the gap through sales, but more importantly, closing the gap through increasing income - it's the latter that will dictate how we do over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Would NSWE, Monchi, et al allow us to get into difficulty with this? It's such a dereliction of duty. They know the rules, it would be against everything they've done so far, (bar Gerrard), to allow serious FFP issues to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I don't think we have to sell anyone to survive. We're probably close to the sell to buy territory though. There's no way we buy Rogers and Ned for over £20m if we're right on the brink. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I guess there are two different things happening - filling the gap through sales, but more importantly, closing the gap through increasing income - it's the latter that will dictate how we do over the next few years. Problem is that our wages and amortisation are going up as fast (if not faster) than our revenue. This can be seen looking at our operating losses not reducing since we were promoted. So for a foreseeable future we are stuck with having to sell for profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 7 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: I don't think we have to sell anyone to survive. We're probably close to the sell to buy territory though. There's no way we buy Rogers and Ned for over £20m if we're right on the brink. Tend to agree. Just an annoying amount of " smoke ". Unless they are just regurgitating each others ( or the original ) " stories ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 12 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: I don't think we have to sell anyone to survive. We're probably close to the sell to buy territory though. There's no way we buy Rogers and Ned for over £20m if we're right on the brink. Unless Roger’s is Ramseys replacement and they wanted to give him 6 months to settle before Ramsey is sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 minutes ago, ender4 said: Unless Roger’s is Ramseys replacement and they wanted to give him 6 months to settle before Ramsey is sold? Can't risk doing that if we have to sell. What if Ramsey got injured, like he did yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 28 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Going to be tough to shift Carlos I’d say. Maybe to the Middle East? Brazilian players seem to chase money but doubt we’d get much of a fee for him. Digne still has value because he’s a very good player. I remember un August it was rumoured Carlos had a buyer and then Mings got injured and he was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 There is going to be a lot of noise about FFP in the next few weeks and almost all of it will be complete bull****. I noticed today that we are going to have to sell one or two star players - probably either Ramsey or Luiz to Newcastle or Ollie to Arsenal. And then the very same person says 5 minutes later that Newcastle are going to have to sell Isak or Bruno Guimaraes and that Arsenal need to sell players too. Basically, the media will get more people reading their **** if they link key players to rumours and will then spend ages saying "we told you so" for the one player that does move (even if it has nothing to do with FFP) whilst ignoring the 20 that they got wrong. Saying that we need to sell Ramsey will just get more interest than saying that we need to sell Coutinho. The media will also have no idea (or interest) in anything else that we might be doing to address any shortfall - this also gives them another "exclusive" to run later in the window - "ah Villa now don't need to sell player x because they've just signed deal z for £20m". The cynic in me also thinks that some of the member will be deliberately trying to cause unrest or raise suspicions within the team in the hope that it causes a drop off in form and allows a certain team from Manchester to claim a CL place. There will only be a handful of people who actually know what we need to do and they seem to run a pretty closed shop in terms of both player signings and commercial deals. My gut feel is that we will hit our PL and UEFA FFP commitments with maybe the departure of 1 or 2 squad players (probably already out on loan). It then becomes about who we need to sell in order to strengthen the rest of the squad - which is a completely different matter - and we'll also have more idea on what extra revenue we can expect next season to do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 22 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Problem is that our wages and amortisation are going up as fast (if not faster) than our revenue. This can be seen looking at our operating losses not reducing since we were promoted. So for a foreseeable future we are stuck with having to sell for profit. We are massively behind on revenue generation but that is Heck's number one issue at the moment. Just look at the extra revenue he generated in Philadelphia. This is also an area that Atairos and Comcast are experts in - their involvement in the club via VSports makes complete sense in this regard. I don't think we can make too many conclusions about revenues based on our previous history. We've already gone from a pretty poor shirt deal with Castore to a reportedly very good deal with Adidas. I think these things will start happening very quickly - especially if we do well in the Conference League and the PL. Not only will we be more marketable as a "top 6" finishing team but we're already engaging with companies in a completely different league (excuse the pun) than we have been able to through the extra contacts that Heck and Atairos have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 10 minutes ago, allani said: There is going to be a lot of noise about FFP in the next few weeks and almost all of it will be complete bull****. I noticed today that we are going to have to sell one or two star players - probably either Ramsey or Luiz to Newcastle or Ollie to Arsenal. And then the very same person says 5 minutes later that Newcastle are going to have to sell Isak or Bruno Guimaraes and that Arsenal need to sell players too. Basically, the media will get more people reading their **** if they link key players to rumours and will then spend ages saying "we told you so" for the one player that does move (even if it has nothing to do with FFP) whilst ignoring the 20 that they got wrong. Saying that we need to sell Ramsey will just get more interest than saying that we need to sell Coutinho. The media will also have no idea (or interest) in anything else that we might be doing to address any shortfall - this also gives them another "exclusive" to run later in the window - "ah Villa now don't need to sell player x because they've just signed deal z for £20m". The cynic in me also thinks that some of the member will be deliberately trying to cause unrest or raise suspicions within the team in the hope that it causes a drop off in form and allows a certain team from Manchester to claim a CL place. There will only be a handful of people who actually know what we need to do and they seem to run a pretty closed shop in terms of both player signings and commercial deals. My gut feel is that we will hit our PL and UEFA FFP commitments with maybe the departure of 1 or 2 squad players (probably already out on loan). It then becomes about who we need to sell in order to strengthen the rest of the squad - which is a completely different matter - and we'll also have more idea on what extra revenue we can expect next season to do that. I'm not sure you fully understand how ffp works. You can actually have 2 teams sell a player to each other and both benefit from FFP perspective. For example we sell JJ to Newcastle for £50m they sell Miley for £50m, both on 5 year contracts, both teams benefit £40m for their FFP for this financial period. So yes, all teams might have to sell, and that won't stop them from buying from each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, Czarnikjak said: I'm not sure you fully understand how ffp works. You can actually have 2 teams sell a player to each other and both benefit from FFP perspective. For example we sell JJ to Newcastle for £50m they sell Miley for £50m, both on 5 year contracts, both teams benefit £40m for their FFP for this financial period. So yes, all teams might have to sell, and that won't stop them from buying from each other. The very clear insinuation being made is that we have to sell Ramsey to Newcastle just to cover our financial losses and avoid a 10 point deduction at the start of next season and that none of that money will be used to fund other purchases. That's the bit I am disagreeing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) I saw a site that showed us having the 6th highest wage bill in the league. That can’t be right surely? Edited March 3 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I saw a site that showed us having the 6th highest wage bill in the league. That can’t be right surely? Wouldn't be surprised since teams like Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal try not to over pay We recently added Coutinho, Lenglet, Carlos, Kamara, Digne, Pau, Diaby plus a few wage topups to longer serving players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: I don't think we have to sell anyone to survive. We're probably close to the sell to buy territory though. There's no way we buy Rogers and Ned for over £20m if we're right on the brink. I have no idea if we have to sell to comply, I don't think anyone does. I am pretty sure we need to sell players with book value profits to buy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Dont think anybody outside the clubs knows what will happen this summer. Guaranteed other teams will have a similar issue with sell to buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, allani said: There is going to be a lot of noise about FFP in the next few weeks and almost all of it will be complete bull****. I noticed today that we are going to have to sell one or two star players - probably either Ramsey or Luiz to Newcastle or Ollie to Arsenal. And then the very same person says 5 minutes later that Newcastle are going to have to sell Isak or Bruno Guimaraes and that Arsenal need to sell players too. Basically, the media will get more people reading their **** if they link key players to rumours and will then spend ages saying "we told you so" for the one player that does move (even if it has nothing to do with FFP) whilst ignoring the 20 that they got wrong. Saying that we need to sell Ramsey will just get more interest than saying that we need to sell Coutinho. The media will also have no idea (or interest) in anything else that we might be doing to address any shortfall - this also gives them another "exclusive" to run later in the window - "ah Villa now don't need to sell player x because they've just signed deal z for £20m". The cynic in me also thinks that some of the member will be deliberately trying to cause unrest or raise suspicions within the team in the hope that it causes a drop off in form and allows a certain team from Manchester to claim a CL place. There will only be a handful of people who actually know what we need to do and they seem to run a pretty closed shop in terms of both player signings and commercial deals. My gut feel is that we will hit our PL and UEFA FFP commitments with maybe the departure of 1 or 2 squad players (probably already out on loan). It then becomes about who we need to sell in order to strengthen the rest of the squad - which is a completely different matter - and we'll also have more idea on what extra revenue we can expect next season to do that. I don't think any of our players want to go to Newcastle instead of here BUT your example is bad. If they sold a player with a big book value profit then they can buy our 100m player no problem and have loads FFP room left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I saw a site that showed us having the 6th highest wage bill in the league. That can’t be right surely? not a chance of that being right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 14 minutes ago, paul514 said: I don't think any of our players want to go to Newcastle instead of here BUT your example is bad. If they sold a player with a big book value profit then they can buy our 100m player no problem and have loads FFP room left That isn't what the rumour-mongers are suggesting though. The implication they are making (because it gets fans agitated) is that if we and Newcastle don't sell key players then we will be in breach of FFP and will be deducted 10 points next season. I don't think anyone on this forum has taken the view that - well if we sell Ramsey and sign £100m worth of players then that's a disaster. It's making "waves" because the implication is that we have to sell him and there will be no money available to sign other players. All I am saying is that I don't believe we need to sell Ramsey just to stay afloat and avoid a 10 point deduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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