CVByrne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Mic09 said: What we must remember (and apparently this has hit Newcastle rather badly) the players will have CL clauses in their contracts. I would be surprised if players like Chambers or Olsen all of a sudden had a 30% salary bump if we did get CL. It is therefore important to make sure our squad is well structured in the summer. We don't want a situation like Newcastle paying crazy money to Matty Targett. That was the intention of the squad cost rule, more performance based pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 21 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: So you're saying we've made a £22.65mil profit over 3 seasons? And we can lose what £120 million? Let get spending +£100 loss limit is over 3 years I think Edited January 13 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I think we're fine for the 2023 Squad Cost of 90% as we are allowed in 2023 as we can include the previous 3 years of player sales prorated to 12 months. Thus our Jack sale in part of our calc. For 2024 we are a bit more constrained as Jacks sale rolls off. Our revenue will grow but salary spent on Traire or Chambers now to Summer will be in our calculation and we need to fit in the 80% for 2024. I think we need to make some decent player sales profit in summer. Maybe some money from academy players and maybe selling Cash and Dendonker. Adidas deal is welcome, CL will be very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Sad part of FFP for me is that it incentivises the selling of homegrown academy players and from that POV it makes sense financially to sell Jacob Ramsey this summer to book pure profit. On one hand the FA & UEFA want clubs to prioritise bringing players through for the first & national teams, but then selling these players aids the bottom line, meaning cheaper foreign based players being brought to replace them to balance the books on occasion. I guess whatever they do it will always be an imperfect system. Thank you @CVByrne for your recent posts and analysis btw, it’s v.helpful and much appreciated! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 13 Moderator Share Posted January 13 I guess if we do make Champions league - we'll also see the effect of the extra income (both directly in TV income and from things like attracting Adidas and perhaps getting new shirt/sleeve sponsors). If it's worth another £60-80m then that's going to really help us with the squad cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Keep seeing Luiz mentioned as someone we could look to sell this summer but not Martinez - loathe to lose either but can easily see the Saudi league coming in for Emi and given his age and what we paid for him he may well have to be the one sacrificed sadly. They system is rotten but guess required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: That was the intention of the squad cost rule, more performance based pay An aside to this do injured long term injured players wages count toward the salary costs for FFP or are these deductible do you know ? Buendia & Mings wages must be approaching £180-200k per week. Long term injuries are part of the game but that’s millions of expenditure on assets we cannot utilise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I guess if we do make Champions league - we'll also see the effect of the extra income (both directly in TV income and from things like attracting Adidas and perhaps getting new shirt/sleeve sponsors). If it's worth another £60-80m then that's going to really help us with the squad cost. Yes as we can book that in H2 2024 the CL wins and the prize money for group stages, plus the new sponsorship. Squad cost rules mean we do an interim financial statements for 6 months from 31 May to 30 Nov so the income for European games gets included and any players sales in summer window etc.. Edited January 13 by CVByrne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 8 minutes ago, thabucks said: An aside to this do injured long term injured players wages count toward the salary costs for FFP or are these deductible do you know ? Buendia & Mings wages must be approaching £180-200k per week. Long term injuries are part of the game but that’s millions of expenditure on assets we cannot utilise Insurance covers their wages but not any amortisation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 15 minutes ago, thabucks said: Keep seeing Luiz mentioned as someone we could look to sell this summer but not Martinez - loathe to lose either but can easily see the Saudi league coming in for Emi and given his age and what we paid for him he may well have to be the one sacrificed sadly. They system is rotten but guess required Luiz comes up a lot because of the fact Arsenal tried to buy him before and he will only have 2 years left on his contract this summer. So if we wanted to sell a player at the peak of his value to reinvest in squad and help FFP Luiz seems like the one. I think we will keep him however if we get CL as the financial boost that gives opens up room for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 hours ago, thabucks said: An aside to this do injured long term injured players wages count toward the salary costs for FFP or are these deductible do you know ? Buendia & Mings wages must be approaching £180-200k per week. Long term injuries are part of the game but that’s millions of expenditure on assets we cannot utilise Literally the one player who we couldn’t replace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 On 12/01/2024 at 08:16, TheMelvillan said: Fascinating article - again highlighting the sliding doors moment that promotion was Also, now the dust has settled, it shows that selling jack was critical to our ongoing success and survival. Just didn't seem like it at the time! Still won't stop him endlessly getting slagged off on his own thread though! "His club" etc. It hurt big time when it happened but basically not sure who else we could've sold for significant money around that period. We'd only had a year of Ollie at that point and someone like McGinn wasn't even in that great form, Luiz was still a bit in and out of the team. Guess we could've doubled our money on Emi if we'd wished given how good he was in his debut season. Ramsey was still only coming through and yet to establish ourselves. So basically selling Grealish when we did kind of stopped an Everton style situation developing. It allowed us to roll the dice a bit reshaping the squad even if the Gerrard vanity project could've also hurt us if we'd kept him on for a few more months. I think at least now majority of our team are in the 40-50m bracket at least and 2-3 of them are in the 80-100m bracket so our squad is far more valuable as a whole than summer 2021 and that should only increase if we make CL and win a trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I guess if we do make Champions league - we'll also see the effect of the extra income (both directly in TV income and from things like attracting Adidas and perhaps getting new shirt/sleeve sponsors). If it's worth another £60-80m then that's going to really help us with the squad cost. It didn't really help Newcastle enough as the coefficient bias means clubs like ours don't get the same amount of prize money as bigger ones. Also it is really difficult to win games in the group stages anyway so there is no guarantee of much money. I agree that our commercial income will increase a bit from additional sponsorship but won't be a massive amount initially. Edited January 13 by Made In Aston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: I think Ramsey will be sacrificed at some stage aswell. Ultimately as good as he is and potentially could be he's barely figured up to December and hasn't been great since his return so he feels a little expendable to me given what we've built in central midfield in last 18 months. He would probably have to find some form to get a big price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 8 hours ago, CVByrne said: Luiz comes up a lot because of the fact Arsenal tried to buy him before and he will only have 2 years left on his contract this summer. So if we wanted to sell a player at the peak of his value to reinvest in squad and help FFP Luiz seems like the one. I think we will keep him however if we get CL as the financial boost that gives opens up room for us. The big challenge with selling luiz is that probably those trying to buy him are also our rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 14 Moderator Share Posted January 14 More posts moved. Reminder, for general FFP please use the FFP Thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 15 hours ago, VillaChris said: I think Ramsey will be sacrificed at some stage aswell. Ultimately as good as he is and potentially could be he's barely figured up to December and hasn't been great since his return so he feels a little expendable to me given what we've built in central midfield in last 18 months. A Ramsey sale is no different to a Luiz, Konsa, Mings, Martinez, Kamara, McGinn, Tielemans etc.. sale it's basically all profit in accounts as they have near zero book value left. The key to success is having a valuable squad and no real dead weight or player cost that's higher than their worth. We are close to that situation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 The problem with us working out which players to sell for 60-100m is that probably only Chelsea, arsenal, United, Liverpool and city are paying those fees. So not only do we need a player worth that, we also need to strengthen a rival and they need a player in that position. I think Watkins is most sellable on this basis, or maybe even Pau. I think it's more likely though we see 3 or 4 moving to create the money. Really we need to hope the players can go up another level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: The problem with us working out which players to sell for 60-100m is that probably only Chelsea, arsenal, United, Liverpool and city are paying those fees. So not only do we need a player worth that, we also need to strengthen a rival and they need a player in that position. I think Watkins is most sellable on this basis, or maybe even Pau. I think it's more likely though we see 3 or 4 moving to create the money. Really we need to hope the players can go up another level We could just choose to not sell one of our key players. We could just be smart in the summer window when really we only need 4 players in and only maybe the RB being a new starter. CL Qualification and a final clean up of the players we need to move on (ie get off our costs in the financial year). Wesley for example, he's still costing us £4.5m this season for example. I think moving on players Emery will never play who are just costs to us now really is going to help the club massively in FFP. I'd be for a lower spend this summer but adding in 3/4 squad players Emery will trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I recall in the 'olden days' players such as Kevin keegan or Ian Botham being paid their wages by sponsors as the clubs they played for couldn't afford their wages. Could we look to off set wages in that way ? For example, the company who own villa Park sponsors 50% of player wages ? Taking that liability off our ffp books to comply with eufa rules on the 80% ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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