Ollie Watkins

[jacketspuds]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

Like signing a back up goal keeper. Hey decent striker please come in and be on bench if Watkins has a bad spell you can come on. Maybe Emery doesn't want this. 

Maybe.

Maybe Emery does, but we couldn't find the right player.

As you say, very difficult. Especially frustrating given how we apparently wanted Abraham, but injury scuppered it.

Could have been quite interesting having Watkins coming in off the left with Abraham as our main striker.

[Chindie]

If Watkins has an extended period of bad form, or he gets injured, we don't have anyone that can reliably come in and have a similar presence and ability. That's bad.

Not getting a striker in in the summer was a mistake. Duran isn't ready and nobody else in the squad fits the profile, leaving us to either completely change our style of play to accommodate players that 'can do a job' upfront, or hoping Zaniolo can adapt to it, or hoping that Duran becomes a PL level striker out of nowhere with his development going into hyper drive instantly. That's a mistake.

Our transfer window was fantastic, but it's not been perfect, and lacking a second senior striker is a big hole we didn't address.

[robby b]

I don't understand how his shooting accuracy was suddenly good for those 11 games last season when he scored 12, then dropped off for a while, then was good again (in pre-season) and now this season back to being not good again. :s  Inconsistent. I wonder if it's mainly a confidence thing.

[Kiwivillan]

7 minutes ago, Chindie said:

If Watkins has an extended period of bad form, or he gets injured, we don't have anyone that can reliably come in and have a similar presence and ability. That's bad.

Not getting a striker in in the summer was a mistake. Duran isn't ready and nobody else in the squad fits the profile, leaving us to either completely change our style of play to accommodate players that 'can do a job' upfront, or hoping Zaniolo can adapt to it, or hoping that Duran becomes a PL level striker out of nowhere with his development going into hyper drive instantly. That's a mistake.

Our transfer window was fantastic, but it's not been perfect, and lacking a second senior striker is a big hole we didn't address.

Jesus got injured last season and Arsenal were playing Trossard up front. Spurs just played Son up front instead of Richarlison neither are strikers. Game has changed

[Risso]

18 minutes ago, Chindie said:

If Watkins has an extended period of bad form, or he gets injured, we don't have anyone that can reliably come in and have a similar presence and ability. That's bad.

Not getting a striker in in the summer was a mistake. Duran isn't ready and nobody else in the squad fits the profile, leaving us to either completely change our style of play to accommodate players that 'can do a job' upfront, or hoping Zaniolo can adapt to it, or hoping that Duran becomes a PL level striker out of nowhere with his development going into hyper drive instantly. That's a mistake.

Our transfer window was fantastic, but it's not been perfect, and lacking a second senior striker is a big hole we didn't address.

I agree, and think the right hand side of midfild is another problem area thta hasn't been sorted. If your choice there is between Matty Cash and Bailey, then it's far from ideal. I guess McGinn will be back there when Ramsey is fit, but that's weeks away yet.

[Chindie]

4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Jesus got injured last season and Arsenal were playing Trossard up front. Spurs just played Son up front instead of Richarlison neither are strikers. Game has changed

All senior players that had done it in the PL and weren't 'doing a job'. Most of them are the modern forward style player which mixes positions. We don't play in that style and rely on Watkins to tussle and harry with defences, and we don't have anyone else that has reliably shown they can do it.

It's fine you disagree, but it doesn't diminish that many don't, and it's very rare that clubs don't have specialised options in positions -the ones that don't often find it to be an issue. Having 1 senior striker is a mistake.

[Chindie]

23 minutes ago, robby b said:

I don't understand how his shooting accuracy was suddenly good for those 11 games last season when he scored 12, then dropped off for a while, then was good again (in pre-season) and now this season back to being not good again. :s  Inconsistent. I wonder if it's mainly a confidence thing.

He had a hot streak. It happens. He wasn't going to maintain his conversion figures - he had a period where he was converting more shots than Haaland was - as we know he's not a brilliant finisher and he's not a composed striker. He's reverted back to the mean, and being a very confidence affected player he's probably gone backwards a bit.

We've always relied on him to do more than just score goals, and thankfully even when he's on a bad run himself he's usually been able to help the team through sheer effort.

[VillanousOne]

16 minutes ago, Chindie said:

All senior players that had done it in the PL and weren't 'doing a job'. Most of them are the modern forward style player which mixes positions. We don't play in that style and rely on Watkins to tussle and harry with defences, and we don't have anyone else that has reliably shown they can do it.

It's fine you disagree, but it doesn't diminish that many don't, and it's very rare that clubs don't have specialised options in positions -the ones that don't often find it to be an issue. Having 1 senior striker is a mistake.

This.

Diaby, Traore, Kellyman and Bailey don't have the physical presence to play the lone striker role if Watkins gets injured. Zanilo might but that is as yet an unknown.

Buendia if fit is the only player we have who has that physical hussle about his game and yet he would also be useless getting on the end of long balls as Watkins does - and the Arsenal comparisons are pointless, we aren't Arsenal and we heavily rely on Watkins to start almost all of our forward play.

Ollie maybe lacking in form but even when he is failing to score he still creates the space that people around him can exploit and get goals.

I think Duran and even Archer are players like Ings that need the ball laid on a plate/in front of them to score goals, they aren't going to ruffle feathers - get on the end of long balls or tussle in 50/50s like Ollie does. Duran might get there but he is so raw he would be better of getting a loan than being a back up.

If Watkins was injured - we would need to set up differently, not having like for like back up option is a huge fail for me.

[nick76]

54 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Jesus got injured last season

Yeah Jesus got injured from a cross apparently, it nailed him.

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Yeah Jesus got injured from a cross apparently, it nailed him.

A myth like the prevalence of back up strikers and keepers

[Tom13]

28 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

This.

Diaby, Traore, Kellyman and Bailey don't have the physical presence to play the lone striker role if Watkins gets injured. Zanilo might but that is as yet an unknown.

Buendia if fit is the only player we have who has that physical hussle about his game and yet he would also be useless getting on the end of long balls as Watkins does - and the Arsenal comparisons are pointless, we aren't Arsenal and we heavily rely on Watkins to start almost all of our forward play.

Ollie maybe lacking in form but even when he is failing to score he still creates the space that people around him can exploit and get goals.

I think Duran and even Archer are players like Ings that need the ball laid on a plate/in front of them to score goals, they aren't going to ruffle feathers - get on the end of long balls or tussle in 50/50s like Ollie does. Duran might get there but he is so raw he would be better of getting a loan than being a back up.

If Watkins was injured - we would need to set up differently, not having like for like back up option is a huge fail for me.

Not sure we do and we certainly don't need to. Kamara and Douglas are great at threading passes into our creators' feet. Diaby being our best current creator with Buendia and Moreno out. Problem is Diaby lacks players on his wavelength (Ollie certainly included) to build quality attacks consistently. Bailey was good yesterday but he's not that player either. Zaniolo, Moreno and Buendia I reckon would help Diaby out no end.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Tom13

[VillaJ100]

1 hour ago, robby b said:

I don't understand how his shooting accuracy was suddenly good for those 11 games last season when he scored 12, then dropped off for a while, then was good again (in pre-season) and now this season back to being not good again. :s  Inconsistent. I wonder if it's mainly a confidence thing.

He spannered loads of chances in pre season 

[Kiwivillan]

If we should have back up striker to rotate with Watkins does that mean Olsen should play ahead of Martinez because he's let in 8 goals in 2 losses?

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said:

If we should have back up striker to rotate with Watkins does that mean Olsen should play ahead of Martinez because he's let in 8 goals in 2 losses?

If Olsen was any good, maybe. But the point is not about rotation - it's about if Watkins gets injured we have no one remotely similar to him in the squad.

Edited September 4, 2023 by VillanousOne

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, Tom13 said:

Not sure we do and we certainly don't need to. Kamara and Douglas are great at threading passes into our creators' feet. Diaby being our best current creator with Buendia and Moreno out. Problem is Diaby lacks players on his wavelength (Ollie certainly included) to build quality attacks consistently. Bailey was good yesterday but he's not that player either. Zaniolo, Moreno and Buendia I reckon would help Diaby out no end.

Diaby is great with the ball in front of him or creating chances, he is great with his feet and technically, but i've not seen any evidence he has the physicality or height to hold the ball up or win balls easily when played long, which considering with Ollie we play quite a few long balls to him kinda is needed.

Diaby was pinged off the ball by Liverpool players a number of times very easily, same Bailey, they made us look like an U15 team at times the difference in physicality, we literally lost 90% off all 50/50s.

[duke313]

I think we’re being to too harsh on Ollie, he was fantastic under Emery last season. No reason why he can’t play like that again.

We watch him every week so see all his misses, more than fans of other club will. There are very few teams in the PL that he wouldn’t play regularly for. Only City, Liverpool and Newcastle.

His goals to xG ratio is pretty much on par for us:

2020-21: 14 goals - 14.5 xG
2021-22: 11 goals - 11.6 xG
2022-23: 15 goals - 16.5 xG

As usual, the whole thing is being blown out of proportion on here.

 

[Tom13]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

I think we’re being to too harsh on Ollie, he was fantastic under Emery last season. No reason why he can’t play like that again.

We watch him every week so see all his misses, more than fans of other club will. There are very few teams in the PL that he wouldn’t play regularly for. Only City, Liverpool and Newcastle.

His goals to xG ratio is pretty much on par for us:

2020-21: 14 goals - 14.5 xG
2021-22: 11 goals - 11.6 xG
2022-23: 15 goals - 16.5 xG

As usual, the whole thing is being blown out of proportion on here.

 

If only it was as simple as looking at xG. If he made killer runs and didn't break down attacking moves with sloppy passes/poor touches, maybe he'd have higher xG.

[Follyfoot]

8 hours ago, Chindie said:

He had a hot streak. It happens. He wasn't going to maintain his conversion figures - he had a period where he was converting more shots than Haaland was - as we know he's not a brilliant finisher and he's not a composed striker. He's reverted back to the mean, and being a very confidence affected player he's probably gone backwards a bit.

We've always relied on him to do more than just score goals, and thankfully even when he's on a bad run himself he's usually been able to help the team through sheer effort.

I wonder if the contract situation is affecting his game

[duke313]

29 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

If only it was as simple as looking at xG. If he made killer runs and didn't break down attacking moves with sloppy passes/poor touches, maybe he'd have higher xG.

And people would still find something to moan about.

Edited September 4, 2023 by duke313

[Kiwivillan]

Just now, duke313 said:

And people would still find something to loan about.

Not another loan