Spoony Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Man I hope he keeps this up. Ive hated watching him since his one good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Impressed with him on Sunday....His tenacity, is back....The lead up to the first goal had fight and determination, great to see it back. A few goals, and Bingo, our Ollie will be back. I really want it to work, for him. Edited November 8, 2022 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Ollie is a converted winger. This means he is more comfortable in the channels and coming off the left. It also means he doesn't have that natural instinct in the box. Ollie is actually and good finisher, but he hasn't got the slyness in front of goal a natural striker has. It's why he is unconvincing in one on one with the keeper situation. However his pressing is really good, his fitness and work rate are a managers dream. His ability in the channels and running in behind are top draw. He can even hold it up well for an average sized man. These factors are what Emery actually looks for in a striker. He may be replaced in the future if we are able to purchase a CLEAR upgrade, but otherwise he is here to stay. Emery likes his strikers quick, he has them play in the channels between the fullback and the centre back, he expects them to work hard. The Watikins - Bailey front 2 when defending was made for Emery's system and vice versa. We basically played 3 formations one for defending, one for transitions, and one for when we are attacking and in the opposition half. But is was seemless, as the forward players (who had to deal with most of the position changes) are all quite intelligent. Sundays win was courtesy of the forwards (in more ways then one), but of course the defense provided the foundation. This is how good coaching and tactics work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Just now, Philosopher said: Ollie is a converted winger. This means he is more comfortable in the channels and coming off the left. It also means he doesn't have that natural instinct in the box. Ollie is actually and good finisher, but he hasn't got the slyness in front of goal a natural striker has. It's why he is unconvincing in one on one with the keeper situation. However his pressing is really good, his fitness and work rate are a managers dream. His ability in the channels and running in behind are top draw. He can even hold it up well for an average sized man. These factors are what Emery actually looks for in a striker. He may be replaced in the future if we are able to purchase a CLEAR upgrade, but otherwise he is here to stay. I debate the bit in bold. His "goal of the month" candidate for example took three attempts from eight yeards. (And is taken from a HUGE sample size of him evidencing incredibly poor finishing). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Don_Simon said: I debate the bit in bold. His "goal of the month" candidate for example took three attempts from eight yeards. (And is taken from a HUGE sample size of him evidencing incredibly poor finishing). He can finish, however like is said he lacks the cuteness, and / or slyness that a top striker has. His 3 attemps one was well saved, one hit the post, the other was a goal. The little lift Bailey put on the finish against Man U is something we don't really see from Ollie, sending the keeper the wrong way with a feint we don't see from him. His on target ratio is solid. Also until the Brentford game he's been feeding off scraps. 1 in 4 attempts being a goal is a good ratio for a striker. Only the very best boast a better conversion rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Philosopher said: He can finish, however like is said he lacks the cuteness, and / or slyness that a top striker has. His 3 attemps one was well saved, one hit the post, the other was a goal. The little lift Bailey put on the finish against Man U is something we don't really see from Ollie, sending the keeper the wrong way with a feint we don't see from him. His on target ratio is solid. Also until the Brentford game he's been feeding off scraps. 1 in 4 attempts being a goal is a good ratio for a striker. Only the very best boast a better conversion rate. Yes, he can finish. But he's not good at it. In next seasons Champions League final, when it's 1-1 in the 96th minute and Villa have a three on one against Real Madrid's aging defence, who do you want shooting, Bailey, Ramsey or Watkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Don_Simon said: I debate the bit in bold. His "goal of the month" candidate for example took three attempts from eight yeards. (And is taken from a HUGE sample size of him evidencing incredibly poor finishing). I don't think his finishing is poor as such; I think he struggles when he has too much time to think. Almost like his thinking gets overloaded with what to do and he ends up with a tame effort at a keeper when 1-on-1. When he has less time to think, his finishing is pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 There's no doubt he can finish, I've just seen the goal he scored against Arsenal at The Emirates two years ago, great finish. But it's the exception rather than the rule. He's not good at it, but on occasion, he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 He's not a good finisher and that's a fact. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tom13 said: He's not a good finisher and that's a fact. Or technically very good. He can bustle and hustle all day, which is great, but the fact is he isn't a clinical finisher or overly technically competent. I think we would benefit hugely from investing in a striker who can do the physical stuff, is also technical and can also finish. Granted that would probably cost big bucks, but if we really want to be pushing up the table we will need it. Edited November 8, 2022 by MaVilla 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted November 8, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Don_Simon said: Yes, he can finish. But he's not good at it. In next seasons Champions League final, when it's 1-1 in the 96th minute and Villa have a three on one against Real Madrid's aging defence, who do you want shooting, Bailey, Ramsey or Watkins? I think we’ll probably bring Mbappe on for the last few mins to give him a run out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Emery has always had great goals scorers in the teams he's managed, he mentioned them in the Marca interview, Negredo, Bacca, Soldado, Aduriz, Villa, Cavani, Aubameyang, Gerard Moreno. Can any of us see Watkins or even Ings added to that list? I think he'll give them a chance, but we should be seriously looking at upgrading the striker department in the next few windows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Tom13 said: He's not a good finisher and that's a fact. I guess it depends on what you're categorising as "finishing". I'm pretty sure his shot accuracy was right up there among the "top scorers" last season, but he may well have hit the ball at the keeper more often than not. Is this "worse finishing" than someone putting the ball wide? I mean, the former at least has a chance of going in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Philosopher said: Ollie is a converted winger. This means he is more comfortable in the channels and coming off the left. It also means he doesn't have that natural instinct in the box. Ollie is actually and good finisher, but he hasn't got the slyness in front of goal a natural striker has. It's why he is unconvincing in one on one with the keeper situation. Thierry Henry says hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, duke313 said: Emery has always had great goals scorers in the teams he's managed, he mentioned them in the Marca interview, Negredo, Bacca, Soldado, Aduriz, Villa, Cavani, Aubameyang, Gerard Moreno. Can any of us see Watkins or even Ings added to that list? I think he'll give them a chance, but we should be seriously looking at upgrading the striker department in the next few windows. Danny Ings is a regular goal scorer, if you play to his strengths. I'm not sure he fits into emery's high pressing style, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, bobzy said: I guess it depends on what you're categorising as "finishing". I'm pretty sure his shot accuracy was right up there among the "top scorers" last season, but he may well have hit the ball at the keeper more often than not. Is this "worse finishing" than someone putting the ball wide? I mean, the former at least has a chance of going in. I'm categorising finishing as finishing. Scoring, not just hitting the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted November 8, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 8, 2022 I still dont think he gets that many chances, compared to say the number of chances Tammy had in the championship and despite a decent haul he still missed loads. I guess we see where he gets to at the end of the season and if he has missed lots if chances, then its the hard task of finding someone more prolific and also capable of doing the work load that Ollie puts in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Its catch 22, no world class finisher, is coming to us, in the lower half of the table. I can only see it being a roll of the dice, and chance our luck on one with Potential. Our goals, albeit in short supply are spread around the team......which, in some ways is harder to stop....Arsenal have no real stand out finishers, their goals are spread around the team.....Wenger once said " Teams score goals", when asked about his strikers, drying up. Ollie for now, will be ok.....with a bit of fine tuning from UE and co......He could be more clinical. In many ways, he is playing well, but he needs to be in the box, and to be quick to the ball, to score....at present much of his work, is in assisting. Edited November 8, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, bobzy said: I guess it depends on what you're categorising as "finishing". I'm pretty sure his shot accuracy was right up there among the "top scorers" last season, but he may well have hit the ball at the keeper more often than not. Is this "worse finishing" than someone putting the ball wide? I mean, the former at least has a chance of going in. Not sure the relevance of this. Finishing is "finishing". To finish. Putting the ball in the net is "finishing". He is so sporadic when shooting, apart from in training where according to the social media team he's on par with Haaland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, bobzy said: I guess it depends on what you're categorising as "finishing". I'm pretty sure his shot accuracy was right up there among the "top scorers" last season, but he may well have hit the ball at the keeper more often than not. Is this "worse finishing" than someone putting the ball wide? I mean, the former at least has a chance of going in. Good finishers have “loose ankles”. Your Solskjaer / Henry / Aguero types can find all 4 corners from any angle, and hit it with power, slot it or dink it. Bailey has this, I *think*. I don’t believe Watkins does. His standard finish is a power shot on target, but usually no real attempt to find the corners. But Watkins is a tireless workhorse, good with his back to goal, good under the high ball, and probably offers enough to be worth persevering with until we can sign a similar profile of quick, physical striker with a bit more technical quality (who will likely cost a fortune). He could end up being a squad player here for a few more seasons tbh. His attitude is good, and he causes teams problems. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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