Ollie Watkins

[Delphinho123]

Just now, macandally said:

Probably the fact he will be awesome if he scores a hat trick against Bournemouth.

You do seem to have a major downer on most players (and are quite vocal about it), is there any players you actually like at Villa?  Guessing Carlos and Kamara as probably haven’t given you reason to diss them yet! 
 

Anyway, Watkins, needs a few goals and confidence will come back.  Guessing Deano was an “arm around” Manager whereas not sure Steve G is

I apologise if it comes across like that. I want us to improve. Watkins drives me mad. 

I think we have some very good players in our squad. Coutinho, Digne, Cash, Martinez, Ramsey. I think you can probably add Carlos and Kamara to that list based on reputation and from what I’ve seen. 

Then there are good players like Buendia, Bailey (from what I’ve seen recently). I also think Sanson could surprise a few if he was given a run. 

There are certain players I have a downer on though, you’re right. McGinn and Watkins in particular. I also don’t rate Luiz as highly as others. If we want to get into that top 8/10, we need to improve upon Watkins, McGinn and Luiz. Whether or not we can do that this Summer remains to be seen, but I’m telling you now, we aren’t going to be able to control football matches enough with those three in our side. Watkins ruins so many of our attacks, McGinn isn’t comfortable enough on the ball and Luiz is woefully inconsistent. 

[villanmac]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

I apologise if it comes across like that. I want us to improve. Watkins drives me mad. 

I think we have some very good players in our squad. Coutinho, Digne, Cash, Martinez, Ramsey. I think you can probably add Carlos and Kamara to that list based on reputation and from what I’ve seen. 

Then there are good players like Buendia, Bailey (from what I’ve seen recently). I also think Sanson could surprise a few if he was given a run. 

There are certain players I have a downer on though, you’re right. McGinn and Watkins in particular. I also don’t rate Luiz as highly as others. If we want to get into that top 8/10, we need to improve upon Watkins, McGinn and Luiz. Whether or not we can do that this Summer remains to be seen, but I’m telling you now, we aren’t going to be able to control football matches enough with those three in our side. Watkins ruins so many of our attacks, McGinn isn’t comfortable enough on the ball and Luiz is woefully inconsistent. 

Sounds like you actually watch the games and dont just regurgitate shite stats.

[Delphinho123]

3 minutes ago, macandally said:

You don’t get to play Premier League if you can’t do “basics”. 

Ridiculous!

Trezeguet was a PL player for us and there were times when I genuinely thought I could do better than him on the pitch.

Look, they’re all very good footballers. You don’t get to that level without being an unbelievable football player so all my comments have to be taken relative to the level they’re at and who they’re playing with/against. Right now, Watkins control of a football is so, so poor compared to his peers. He’s gone backwards. I’m sure it wasn’t this bad when he signed. 

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

 He’s gone backwards. I’m sure it wasn’t this bad when he signed. 

Not just his touch, I'd say that about him in general, I'd say the same about ings too

Which is why I then want more from Gerrard 

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

Not just his touch, I'd say that about him in general, I'd say the same about ings too

Which is why I then want more from Gerrard 

Don’t get me started on Ings. He doesn’t look that fit to me. He’s a better footballer than Watkins but I question whether he’s fit enough to warrant a start. 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Trezeguet was a PL player for us and there were times when I genuinely thought I could do better than him on the pitch.

Look, they’re all very good footballers. You don’t get to that level without being an unbelievable football player so all my comments have to be taken relative to the level they’re at and who they’re playing with/against. Right now, Watkins control of a football is so, so poor compared to his peers. He’s gone backwards. I’m sure it wasn’t this bad when he signed. 

It was that bad but he was excelling at his other traits. Now those other traits aren’t as strong at the moment, the flaws to his game are more obvious.  Every player has a flaw or two.  One of Ollie’s is his control, especially his first touch.

[villa4europe]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Don’t get me started on Ings. He doesn’t look that fit to me. He’s a better footballer than Watkins but I question whether he’s fit enough to warrant a start. 

That's where I am too

Ings doesn't look fit

Watkins doesn't look confident 

Could just be ings is old and Watkins is shit but I don't buy that, it's not just Gerrard it's the whole coaching staff and management team, got to sort it out before we just write then off and throw another £60m at someone else

[WHY]

13 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Really? Agreed on the ‘scored all his chances’ part but you think our level at the moment is a striker who struggles to control the ball? We have players like Carlos, Digne, Coutinho, Buendia etc. Our level is absolutely higher than somebody who struggles with the absolute basics. 

You don’t rate him and that’s fine but he’s got to double figures twice in his first 2 PL seasons and will do it again next season imo. I don’t think he particularly great but isn’t as bad you make out either. There simply aren’t many strikers out there who will get double figures in the PL without costing £50 million plus. Unless we are getting a massive upgrade I don’t see the point in replacing him. We were 7th highest scorers last season. 

[Delphinho123]

Just now, villa4europe said:

That's where I am too

Ings doesn't look fit

Watkins doesn't look confident 

Could just be ings is old and Watkins is shit but I don't buy that, it's not just Gerrard it's the whole coaching staff and management team, got to sort it out before we just write then off and throw another £60m at someone else

You’re probably right. Ings was such a poor signing in my book for the money spent. He’s our best paid player!

Im of the opinion that Archer should go out on loan again but honestly, the way the other two are playing, I’d be more than willing to at least give him a go. 

[useless]

I'd like us to sign a better striker than Watkins, but balancedly, that doesn't mean to say I think Watkins is a bad player, i think he's a good player, wanting a new player in a certain position doesn't have to mean you think the current options are rubbish or whatever.

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, WHY said:

You don’t rate him and that’s fine but he’s got to double figures twice in his first 2 PL seasons and will do it again next season imo. I don’t think he particularly great but isn’t as bad you make out either. There simply aren’t many strikers out there who will get double figures in the PL without costing £50 million plus. Unless we are getting a massive upgrade I don’t see the point in replacing him. We were 7th highest scorers last season. 

See, I don’t think it’s going to cost you £50m to find a striker that can score 10 goals in our side. I really don’t. 

If you can stay fit and play the majority of matches in a season, I bet you could find a player for way less than £50m who would score that many for us. I bet Archer would get 10 goals next season if he plays the same amount of minutes as Wakins will. 

This constant obsession with ‘double figures’ irritates me too. It’s a misnomer. I think a better player in that position means others score more goals so as a team you benefit more. 

I bet Watkins costs us 4/5 goals a season with poor touches and poor interplay. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Could just be ings is old 

Isn't Ings 29/30?

I mean, I know his face/hair looks like he's come off a  hard bender half the time, but if he's " old " then most of us are near death.

Just last season many of us praised his workrate, even when he wasn't scoring. lol

He was harrying and tracking back non stop.

Edited July 31, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[WHY]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

See, I don’t think it’s going to cost you £50m to find a striker that can score 10 goals in our side. I really don’t. 

If you can stay fit and play the majority of matches in a season, I bet you could find a player for way less than £50m who would score that many for us. I bet Archer would get 10 goals next season if he plays the same amount of minutes as Wakins will. 

This constant obsession with ‘double figures’ irritates me too. It’s a misnomer. I think a better player in that position means others score more goals so as a team you benefit more. 

I bet Watkins costs us 4/5 goals a season with poor touches and poor interplay. 

What constant obsession? I’m just pointing out he has done ok, better than a lot of recent strikers who are new to the league. I haven’t looked but I’m guessing he would have scored more goals in the last 2 seasons than any other strikers who is new to the league in the same period. Ollie isn’t perfect but he  works hard and occupies defenders. Out of interest who would you sign to replace him. 

[villanmac]

37 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Trezeguet was a PL player for us and there were times when I genuinely thought I could do better than him on the pitch.

Look, they’re all very good footballers. You don’t get to that level without being an unbelievable football player so all my comments have to be taken relative to the level they’re at and who they’re playing with/against. Right now, Watkins control of a football is so, so poor compared to his peers. He’s gone backwards. I’m sure it wasn’t this bad when he signed. 

I will show you two examples from that season that I can remember because they both lead to opposition goals @ 0.58 and 2.28 in the video. Failure to trap a ball/heavy touch.

That season with everything going through Grealish it didn't get exposed as much but since he's had to come and link the play up more his limitations have got more exposed. Its just a struggle to trap a ball at times..and the thing is, I don't even think he's bad in front of goal. Maybe he's not the greatest finisher, but I actually think he's more than good enough in that area. It's just attacks ruined because of a failure in being able to receive a pass without taking 5 touches

I mean in that West Ham game he actually scores and hits the post and Im not blaming him for the goals conceded because that's on the defence but it's an extreme example of how the net effect of not being able to do the basics can negate goals scored in a season. Its more of an issue as we get more technical players who want to play into feet and I'm convinced that it's a part of the problem as to why we can't build attacks (not the only one mind... as you say there's other reasons beyond that)

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by villanmac

[May-Z]

5 minutes ago, villanmac said:

I will show you two examples from that season that I can remember because they both lead to opposition goals @ 0.58 and 2.28 in the video. Failure to trap a ball/heavy touch.

That season with everything going through Grealish it didn't get exposed as much but since he's had to come and link the play up more his limitations have got more exposed. Its just a struggle to trap a ball at times..and the thing is, I don't even think he's bad in front of goal. Maybe he's not the greatest finisher, but I actually think he's more than good enough in that area. It's just attacks ruined because of a failure to do the basics.

I mean in that West Ham game he actually scores and hits the post and Im not blaming him for the goals conceded because that's on the defence but it's an extreme example of how the net effect of not being able to do the basics can negate goals scored in a season. Its more of an issue as we get more technical players who want to play into feet and I'm convinced that it's a part of the problem as to why we can't build attacks (not the only one mind... as you say there's other reasons beyond that)

 

As you say, he's bent a difficult chance against the post the he created himself and finished a chance very few would even get a shot away from. So in comparison with other strikers, he has benefits over them as well.

I find him as frustrating as anything, and think he should be upgraded, but he does some decent work too.

His touch is awful, and is a reason we come under the cosh/concede easily in transition as you pointed out. It just has to get better if we're to use this system well. A player like Firmino would be the type I'd look at. He'd get ten a season but add to the all round play.

(One thing from that clip as well, Emi Martinez had an absolute stinker. All three straight through him.)

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

Anyway on Ollie, i've always said... he reminds me of an advanced Gabby.

 

Disagree with this mate. Gabby in his pomp was much better than Watkins imo. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Just watching the highlights again.

It was actually a very intelligent header from Ollie which helped create the assist for Leons goal.

[WHY]

25 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Just watching the highlights again.

It was actually a very intelligent header from Ollie which helped create the assist for Leons goal.

I went the game and he didn’t have a lot of service yesterday. Like you say he did well for Baileys goal and worked tirelessly in what were very hot conditions. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by WHY

[messi11]

I think the fact only Mane, Salah, Kane and Son are the ONLY ones to score more PL goals than Ollie Watkins in the last 2 PL seasons suggests a lot are overreaching, and he's not as useless as @Delphinho123suggests. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by messi11

[Delphinho123]

16 minutes ago, messi11 said:

I think the fact only Mane, Salah, Kane and Son are the ONLY ones to score more PL goals than Ollie Watkins in the last 2 PL seasons suggests a lot are overreaching, and he's not as useless as @Delphinho123suggests. 

We’ll see.