Relegation thread

[AvonVillain]

7 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Considering the rebuild we had to undertake, with the limited money available, and the injuries to key players, I think we’ve done okay. Had we kept just one of McGinn, Heaton or Wesley then I think right now we’d be safe. Any team that loses 1 key player suffers, let alone 3.

I think it boarders upon the ridiculous to not consider these 3 injuries. Season changing. Smith gets a free pass from me because of this. To watch as he swaps two non-scoring strikers game after game is tortuous. Only Norwich have got a more pathetic attack, and just look at their point haul.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I agree. A simplistic view is that we’ve recruited poorly because we’re in the relegation zone, but I genuinely think that injuries are the main reason for our plight, and the only ‘errors’ in the transfer business, in my opinion, was not bringing in another striker and not finding a better winger.

But when you consider that we signed, what, 13 new players? Most of them are now looking like decent players, and some are definitely now showing the potential that we probably hoped they’d show earlier in the season.

You mean Luiz.....and thats it.

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck....   thats being simplistic.

[Rob182]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Not trying to be argumentative, but .....

• Wesley has nor even been well received by the fans and some wanted him removed before his injury
• Heaton is a genuine shout for me, but Reina has shown the character to cover.
• John McGinn went off form way before his injury and since his return is a shadow of the player we know as SJM.

Injuries are part and parcel of Pro football, its what managers have to deal with and plans have to be arranged around, they factor in, these troublesome events....they can all cite instances.

I think you’re trying to be negative towards our actions this season.

- Some fans don’t like Wesley, and couldn’t see what he brought to the team, but it was clear that we played better with him in the team. Some fans rant and race about Neal Maupay, but Wesley had a similar goal ratio to him when he got injured.

- Reina is fine, but him and Nyland dropped more clangers in 3 games than Heaton did from August to New Year.

- I thought it was widely thought that McGinn was suffering from a bit of burnout. He’s a full throttle player, and for a long spell he played every minute. 
 

Yes, every team gets injuries, but I can’t think of many teams that lose their best keeper, their best central midfielder and their best striker and have sufficient cover in their ranks to keep the team at the same level.

[Rob182]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

You mean Luiz.....and thats it.

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck....   thats being simplistic.

So you don’t think Konsa is looking good now?

You don’t think Hause was looking like a decent defender next to Mings before his injury?

Trez hasn’t started to show more glimpses of what we want to see in a winger since the restart?

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats why we are 18th....we have a competitive squad

Yes, we are competitive. We aren't cut adrift, and are in with a good shout to stay up despite our squad missing its spine for almost half a season. We've been in the vast majority of games we've played as well.

[Rob182]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats why we are 18th....we have a competitive squad

If we didn’t have a competitive squad we’d be 20th with a 13 point gap to safety like Norwich.

Do you even remember the squad of 16 senior players we had at the end of last season?
 

It included such great players as Henri Lansbury, James Bree, Neil Taylor, Kalinic, Kodjia, Aaron Tshibola, Andre Green & Scott Hogan.

Anyone thinking we didn’t have an absolutely mammoth task on our hands is either shortsighted or too focused on their own agenda.

[Keyblade]

8 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I agree. A simplistic view is that we’ve recruited poorly because we’re in the relegation zone, but I genuinely think that injuries are the main reason for our plight, and the only ‘errors’ in the transfer business, in my opinion, was not bringing in another striker and not finding a better winger.

But when you consider that we signed, what, 13 new players? Most of them are now looking like decent players, and some are definitely now showing the potential that we probably hoped they’d show earlier in the season.

We have built a squad full of £10m players on average and looking at it like that, it'll actually be remarkable if we stay up. 

[AvonVillain]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

Injuries are part and parcel of Pro football, its what managers have to deal with and plans have to be arranged around, they factor in, these troublesome events....they can all cite instances.

Take out a crucial part of your spine, and EVERY club suffers. In our case, it's the difference between finishing 15th/16th, or being relegated.

[Keyblade]

I felt like that Burnley game was a turning point for us in terms of how we were playing, and of course just our luck we had to lose our main striker and goalkeeper that day.

[Rob182]

Just now, Keyblade said:

We have built a squad full of £10m players on average and looking at it like that, it'll actually be remarkable if we stay up. 

Yep.

I’ve tried thinking, with complete hindsight, how we could have done things differently, and the only things I’ve come up with are the following:

- Instead of spending £12m on Konsa, bring in an experienced Prem defender on loan (eg: a Craig Cathcart), and then use the remaining money (say, £9m after the loan wages/fee) on top of the Engels money to buy a £20m defender instead of Engels

- Instead of Nakamba & Luiz, just buy one of them, and loan a midfielder (ie: A Danny Drinkwater), then put the saved money (say £9m?) on top of the Trez money to get a better (more expensive) winger.

- Loan another striker.

That’s it. That’s the best I could come up with. I’ve hardly cracked the Da Vinci code. 
 

I think something that people often forget, is that last season we had to plan for this season in both the Championship and the Premier League. Until 3-4 games into our 10-game winning run, everyone was expecting another season in the Championship, so I imagine the task of looking for 2 sets of transfer targets was pretty difficult. If they’d spent more time looking for £15m wingers, that time could have been completely wasted if we’d lost in the play-off final.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

If we didn’t have a competitive squad we’d be 20th with a 13 point gap to safety like Norwich.

Do you even remember the squad of 16 senior players we had at the end of last season?
 

It included such great players as Henri Lansbury, James Bree, Neil Taylor, Kalinic, Kodjia, Aaron Tshibola, Andre Green & Scott Hogan.

Anyone thinking we didn’t have an absolutely mammoth task on our hands is either shortsighted or too focused on their own agenda.

And unless we reverse the trend of signing poor players, you will continue to follow the same narrative....  20th, 18th who cares, its cosmetic, its still failure.

Have you cared to study the Sheff Utd squad......its hardly a world beating line up of individuals, but its a team.

have you looked at the Burnley Squad, featuring 3 of our rejects.

Its management mate.

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Hopefully Deeney is injured for the remaining Watford games too. Think he went off injured.

he's been crap of late, aside from that one goal that most strikers would have converted, they're talking about having him on the sidelines as a player/coach. worryingly i think he'll be much more effective there.

[Rob182]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

And unless we reverse the trend of signing poor players, you will continue to follow the same narrative....  20th, 18th who cares, its cosmetic, its still failure.

Have you cared to study the Sheff Utd squad......its hardly a world beating line up of individuals, but its a team.

have you looked at the Burnley Squad, featuring 3 of our rejects.

Its management mate.

Yeah, I’ve looked at their squads.

 

They both have squads of players put together by a manager over time. Players that can play the way the manager wants them to do, and have been trained to do so over 2-3 years. One manager came up with a great new tactic that the Premier League had never seen before, and the other has benefitted from the patience of his fans and management to allow him to rebuild his team after a relegation. They’re not exactly great examples to compare to us are they?

A better comparison would be Norwich. They had a good Championship team, they stuck largely with their players from down there, and they have a good manager in Farke. But they’re the ones that aren’t competitive. 

Part of management is building a team. You think Smith should have built a team using a load of Di Matteo and Steve Bruce signings that barely got a game in the Championship?

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

So you don’t think Konsa is looking good now?

You don’t think Hause was looking like a decent defender next to Mings before his injury?

Trez hasn’t started to show more glimpses of what we want to see in a winger since the restart?

• I don't think he is Premier class no.....might be in the future, who knows
• Never thought Hause is as bad as some, decent in the air, but has errors in him...not Premier league standard.
• Trez is inconsistent personified, has games where he hustles and harries, but hit and miss.

Perhaps contributors of why we are where we are.

[Okonokos]

5 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Especially with that goal at Crystal Palace getting disallowed for no reason. Would be annoying af.

That seems so long ago now but I remember it so vividly. I've never been so angry after a match and I said at the time that it may be a factor on the last day of the season. It would be gut wrenching. Kevin Friend had better not show his face at Villa Park ever again, the useless scumbag.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Okonokos

[tomav84]

4 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

Every time I think we're done and dusted, other teams leave the door open for us. This is the last time we can take advantage of it. A point or 3 would be massive on Tuesday

exactly. the football gods have been so kind to us. it's a miracle that we're in with a realistic chance of staying up. it's about time we took it for once. something tells me that after arsenal we wont be given another chance. bournemouth will beat everton i reckon...what they got to lose? they'll go for it, all out attack. i can see us needing 4 pts

[momo]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

And unless we reverse the trend of signing poor players, you will continue to follow the same narrative....  20th, 18th who cares, its cosmetic, its still failure.

Have you cared to study the Sheff Utd squad......its hardly a world beating line up of individuals, but its a team.

have you looked at the Burnley Squad, featuring 3 of our rejects.

Its management mate.

And Villa has one Burnley reject in goal

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Yeah, I’ve looked at their squads.

 

They both have squads of players put together by a manager over time. Players that can play the way the manager wants them to do, and have been trained to do so over 2-3 years. One manager came up with a great new tactic that the Premier League had never seen before, and the other has benefitted from the patience of his fans and management to allow him to rebuild his team after a relegation. They’re not exactly great examples to compare to us are they?

A better comparison would be Norwich. They had a good Championship team, they stuck largely with their players from down there, and they have a good manager in Farke. But they’re the ones that aren’t competitive. 

Part of management is building a team. You think Smith should have built a team using a load of Di Matteo and Steve Bruce signings that barely got a game in the Championship?

Wilder has been winning since he went in to The club......he has bought his time.

Do you subscribe to just sticking with Dean, no matter what, even if we continue to fail to win?, like this season....at what point, do you think it is fair to question his performance?.....if we go down, do you go with the same narrative and give him what? 10 games, half a season or a full season?

when exactly is your opinion of time up.

[Keyblade]

Just need to avoid defeat against Arsenal if for nothing else but to keep our goal difference exactly how it is. Of course the point or 3 would be very valuable, but we can't lose any more ground on Watford in terms of GD, or give Bournemouth a chance to overhaul us. Then we need to score as many as we can against West Ham.

[Only2McInallys]

32 minutes ago, TRO said:

And unless we reverse the trend of signing poor players, you will continue to follow the same narrative....  20th, 18th who cares, its cosmetic, its still failure.

Have you cared to study the Sheff Utd squad......its hardly a world beating line up of individuals, but its a team.

have you looked at the Burnley Squad, featuring 3 of our rejects.

Its management mate.

Or it’s the fans expectations.

Westwood came in for some horrible abuse on here he couldn’t do this or that.A lot of posters on here only see what a player can’t do rather than what they can do.Maybe if we had kept hold of Westwood we wouldn’t have needed Nakamba and then we could have bought Benrahma sometimes keeping players allows you to spend more on other areas.

Maybe some posters on here can take some responsibility for our problems.

Look at El gazi he made a mistake is it going to help him to abuse him on social media,is it going to affect other players thinking if they make an error they are going to be crucified.

Then we wonder why some players are afraid to take risks with the ball.

We hopefully have 2 games left let’s just think positively about are players and hope we can perform to the best of our ability .I can not forgive a player for not giving his all but I can accept a player giving the ball away or making a mistake.It happens.

The time for proper player assessments is at the end of the season.Now is the time for support and prayer (if you believe in McGrath)

Edited July 19, 2020 by Only2McInallys