Cameron Archer

[Anything11]

Under all of our recent managers since we wen't down Archer would stay and get significant minutes to see what he had at this level. With Emery it is a different story - he knows what he is looking at and has the track record to prove it. 

Seems to me Emery wants to see more from Archers development while recognising he probably won't get the game time to do so here. He needs more time.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Anything11

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Has Archer had a chance to prove himself in the PL?

You have to prove yourself in training to get minutes on the pitch. You then need to prove yourself on the pitch. Gerrard and Emery have had the chance to give him more mins on pitch and haven't 

[MaVilla]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure we'll ever need a buyback clause for Cameron.

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, YLN said:

These buy back clauses are a fantasy. If he's sold, he's gone.

The reason they're rarely used is because the selling clubs are usually right. The player isn't good enough for their level. It's just an insurance policy of they're wrong 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, allani said:

But didn't JJ and Dougie have exactly the same opportunity of honing their skills in a bottom half PL team to prove that they should be amongst the first names on the team sheet at a team in the top 8?  As I say I think I'd like him to stay (unless the money is needed to fund the transfer of a player who will improve our team immediately) but I can also see that this would be a great sell / opportunity for him.  Stay and play the odd game against the likes of Gillingham, Bristol Rovers, etc in the cup and maybe a few PL minutes here and there or go and be the main man at a lower PL team and if you score 10 - 15 goals then we'll bring you back and you'll have the opportunity to directly compete with Ollie for our starting shirt next season.

I am warming to the prospect of selling on a "buy back clause".......He needs game time in the Prem, and I accept at Villa, it will be sparse.

 

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Anything11 said:

Under all of our recent managers since we wen't down Archer would stay and get significant minutes to see what he had at this level. With Emery it is a different story - he knows what he is looking at and has the track record to prove it. 

Seems to me Emery wants to see more from Archers development while recognising he probably won't get the game time to do so here. He needs more time.

 

 

We have entered a different zone under UE and the quality of player required has risen dramatically......thats tough on the kids, but a victim of our own success.

[allani]

13 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

The reason they're rarely used is because the selling clubs are usually right. The player isn't good enough for their level. It's just an insurance policy of they're wrong 

And if the buy back clause means that you get £5m less than you could sell him for without it - you only need around 1 in 10 players to really make it and invoke the clause in order to break even on the clauses overall (assuming that the average first team signing for a top 8 club is around £50-60m).

[allani]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have entered a different zone under UE and the quality of player required has risen dramatically......thats tough on the kids, but a victim of our own success.

At the same time the kids that don't quite "make it" are now being signed for the Premier League / top end Championship rather than disappearing into League Two.  So as we get better and our Academy gets better - the future careers of our Academy graduates also gets better.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, allani said:

At the same time the kids that don't quite "make it" are now being signed for the Premier League / top end Championship rather than disappearing into League Two.  So as we get better and our Academy gets better - the future careers of our Academy graduates also gets better.

yeah, the whole thing, moves up a level.

[useless]

Archer might not even end up at a Premier League side, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Leeds or Leicester that came in for him, those two would probably be more likely to give us more money than the teams in the Prem that would want him as well.

[cheltenham_villa]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have entered a different zone under UE and the quality of player required has risen dramatically......thats tough on the kids, but a victim of our own success.

Im struggling to think of anyone that weve got this wrong for, any kids that didnt get the playing time and went off to better things. Cahill is probably the only one in my mind. 

Im that basis this just seems a smarter way of moving on youth players who probably wont be good enough but giving ourselves an insurance policy.

[allani]

Just now, TRO said:

yeah, the whole thing, moves up a level.

This is one thing that Purslow definitely got right.  He mentioned that he wanted our Academy to be the best in the region and for the quality of the players leaving it to improve.  It definitely feels like we're beginning to see that come true.  Whether the same number make it into our first XI remains to be seen - but like you say as the quality of our squad improves, the harder it becomes to get into.  But the better the reputation of our Academy becomes the more likely it is that players will end up with good footballing careers.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, useless said:

Archer might not even end up at a Premier League side, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Leeds or Leicester that came in for him, those two would probably be more likely to give us more money than the teams in the Prem that would want him as well.

could be....but that wouldn't tell us, any more than we already know......The whole doubt is whether he can replicate his championship hit rate, in the Premier League.....so thats where he needs to go to prove it.

 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, allani said:

This is one thing that Purslow definitely got right.  He mentioned that he wanted our Academy to be the best in the region and for the quality of the players leaving it to improve.  It definitely feels like we're beginning to see that come true.  Whether the same number make it into our first XI remains to be seen - but like you say as the quality of our squad improves, the harder it becomes to get into.  But the better the reputation of our Academy becomes the more likely it is that players will end up with good footballing careers.

yeah, it has a knock on effect.

quite exciting really.

[allani]

3 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

Im struggling to think of anyone that weve got this wrong for, any kids that didnt get the playing time and went off to better things. Cahill is probably the only one in my mind. 

Im that basis this just seems a smarter way of moving on youth players who probably wont be good enough but giving ourselves an insurance policy.

Cahill was a monumental **** up.

Chuck might be the same (his career could still go either way) - but I don't really know what the club could have done to prevent that.  I mean maybe Emery and Monchi might have had a better chance of persuading him to sign a new contract without pandering to his demands.  Stuff like that will happen and you just need to get the best deal you can and suck it up.

[cheltenham_villa]

Just now, allani said:

Cahill was a monumental **** up.

Chuck might be the same (his career could still go either way) - but I don't really know what the club could have done to prevent that.  I mean maybe Emery and Monchi might have had a better chance of persuading him to sign a new contract without pandering to his demands.  Stuff like that will happen and you just need to get the best deal you can and suck it up.

but we at least took good money for Chuck. Outside of that, Cahill was the only one that probably could have had a buy back clause. Other than that, the young players generally just disappear from footy.

[allani]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

could be....but that wouldn't tell us, any more than we already know......The whole doubt is whether he can replicate his championship hit rate, in the Premier League.....so thats where he needs to go to prove it.

 

Tend to agree.  But actually scoring 20 or 30 in the Championship and winning promotion might also present a compelling case - especially if either team had a good run in one or both the cups and knocked out some decent PL sides.  Would probably be a 2 year window rather than a 1 year window but maybe 1 promotion year and 1 PL year with a decent team like Leicester would be better proof / a better opportunity than 1 relegation year and 1 year in the Championship...

[villaglint]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think Archer is used to being the figurehead of an attack. He played up top with Akpom at Middlesborough and pretty sure there was a target man type player alongside him at Preston. 

At Villa he is playing the Watkins role leading the line and maybe that doesnt get the best out of him. 

Anyway assuming we bring in another striker I'm happy. Seems to be zero links to strikers though, that is the concerning bit. 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, allani said:

Cahill was a monumental **** up.

Chuck might be the same (his career could still go either way) - but I don't really know what the club could have done to prevent that.  I mean maybe Emery and Monchi might have had a better chance of persuading him to sign a new contract without pandering to his demands.  Stuff like that will happen and you just need to get the best deal you can and suck it up.

GC was late ish developer too ....went to Bolton at 23 and played 130 games, some period to learn the craft.

went to Chelsea at 27.

but in general....I have a soft spot for Cam

This is not a criticism, Its an observation.....but right now we are in a bit of a hurry, to be a good team and its working......but I hope it does not adversely affect our younger players, who's rate of development, might not be quite as exponential.

Overall, I trust UE to call this right.

Edited August 11, 2023 by TRO

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Pinebro said:

Reality is I wouldn't feel comfortable with Archer starting competitive Prem games. Ergo I don't want him in the squad.

We aim for top 4 now and it's a ruthless business. Sell the kids with potential who aren't good enough right now with a buy back clause like the rest of the top clubs do.

Man City have Cole palmer playing for them

I'd rather we had archer in and around the squad than a 30 year old journeyman as the back up