Dean Smith

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

That is simply one extreme to the other......There are 16 teams fighting for respectability.....I want us to do our best in that bunch.

Where would you say respectability lies for us, both right now and next season?

I'd say there are seven that will start next season thinking they've got a chance of the title, I mean, most of them will be wrong, but I think they'll still believe it.

I see us in a little bunch with Everton, West Ham, Leeds and Wolves with maybe Palace and Southampton getting a look in on a good day. There's every chance one of 'our' group will interfere with the other seven (and it'll be good for us if they do), but I don't think we can go into next season with an expectation of finishing anywhere above eighth.

Next season, eighth would be winning our group I think and would be good, I think as a club we're capable of that if the summer goes well. Lower than 12th would be below par I think.

 

 

 

 

[villalad21]

We have no DM.

That's a big reason to why we are conceding so many shots against and why Emi have to make so many saves.

Top priority in the summer.

[VillanousOne]

38 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We have no DM.

That's a big reason to why we are conceding so many shots against and why Emi have to make so many saves.

Top priority in the summer.

We have Nakamba, the only player who can play that  defensive role and sometimes he actually does it quite well. Only problem is much like El Ghazi they both need consistent game time, both get chopped in and out all the time, 1 game in 10 then dropped again for 10 games. They can do nothing as subs, not win games or stop other teams from winning games.

Dean tends to turn to Nakamba when everything else fails, same El Ghazi.

None of them are really strong enough to have an impact or 'stop the rot' they need to be fully integrated and playing regularly. Trez can occasionally have an impact as a sub but he was at his best last season after a long run of games, El Ghazi did ok this season when he got a run of games. Nakamba has never had a run of more than 3 games in the side.

Ramsey and Davis are as close as we have to fringe players who could change the outcome of a game but most likely won't. Trez obviously is very sadly out injured.

Not saying it's Dean's fault at all, just saying. I think he has no choice but to give youth a chance, but i can't see it, they might get on the bench but they won't play, hope i'm wrong.

Edited April 13, 2021 by VillanousOne

[TRO]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Where would you say respectability lies for us, both right now and next season?

I'd say there are seven that will start next season thinking they've got a chance of the title, I mean, most of them will be wrong, but I think they'll still believe it.

I see us in a little bunch with Everton, West Ham, Leeds and Wolves with maybe Palace and Southampton getting a look in on a good day. There's every chance one of 'our' group will interfere with the other seven (and it'll be good for us if they do), but I don't think we can go into next season with an expectation of finishing anywhere above eighth.

Next season, eighth would be winning our group I think and would be good, I think as a club we're capable of that if the summer goes well. Lower than 12th would be below par I think.

 

 

 

 

I see it like you....12th this season, as I predicted at the start....8th next season, would be ok....maybe a better cup run.

I don't happen to like the owners of West Ham, but I think they( West Ham) have done very well indeed.....I see a team, not necessarily better than us, individually, but a more rounded outfit.....I hope in the Summer we can improve on that.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Yeah but people say our form is relegation form which is a factual question with a correct answer. If you’re unhappy with the way we’re playing at the moment that’s fair enough, but there’s no way we’re one of the 3 worst teams in the league, and we haven’t been at any point.

but with respect, you are drifting again, in to the season.....of course we wasn't anywhere close to relegation form, in the first 15 games......The concerns being raised are now, last c6 games.

Its very subjective to say relegation form, but look where we are in the form league over the last 6 games and you will get your answer.

I think folk on here are debating on different parallels.....some are concerned with our form and others are answering back on the season as a whole......The season has been great, because we made ourselves safe with early season form.

Edited April 13, 2021 by TRO

[sne]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I see it like you....12th this season, as I predicted at the start....8th next season, would be ok....maybe a better cup run.

I don't happen to like the owners of West Ham, but I think they( West Ham) have done very well indeed.....I see a team, not necessarily better than us, individually, but a more rounded outfit.....I hope in the Summer we can improve on that.

They've had 11 years to build that team since they bought into West Ham and had quite a few blunders and mishaps along the way. Including a relegation in their first season. This season is very much an anomaly for them. Let's see where they end up and if they can replicate it next season.

Ours have been here less than 3 years and had to start in the Championship with a club that was going bankrupt. So give it another 8 (or 2) years and I'll be surprised if we are not looking at West Ham in the rear view mirror.

[TRO]

Just now, sne said:

They've had 11 years to build that team since they bought into West Ham and had quite a few blunders and mishaps along the way. Including a relegation in their first season. This season is very much an anomaly for them. Let's see where they end up and if they can replicate it next season.

Ours have been here less than 3 years and had to start in the Championship with a club that was going bankrupt. So give it another 8 (or 2) years and I'll be surprised if we are not looking at West Ham in the rear view mirror.

You could be right....but they have had their fair share of bad buys and last season only just finished above us...The players they have bought have worked out well so far for them, yes you are right, lets see if they can sustain it.

There again, you are using the such a long period of time, to counter a short term form concern.

as for looking back at West Ham, I will be delighted.

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, sne said:

They've had 11 years to build that team since they bought into West Ham and had quite a few blunders and mishaps along the way. Including a relegation in their first season. This season is very much an anomaly for them. Let's see where they end up and if they can replicate it next season.

Ours have been here less than 3 years and had to start in the Championship with a club that was going bankrupt. So give it another 8 (or 2) years and I'll be surprised if we are not looking at West Ham in the rear view mirror.

They currently have a £40m out on loan and earlier this season took a £20m hit when they sold their other £40m player 

West Ham have spent some money to get to where they are

And even then you'd do well to convince me that they'd be having this season with their boo boy fans in attendance 

[sne]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

You could be right....but they have had their fair share of bad buys and last season only just finished above us...The players they have bought have worked out well so far for them, yes you are right, lets see if they can sustain it.

There again, you are using the such a long period of time, to counter a short term form concern.

as for looking back at West Ham, I will be delighted.

Sorry, don't follow you here. 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m fully aware that some players haven’t played all the games. I’m aware that we have played less games than some of the other teams, but in general those teams that are in Europe or who have progressed further in the domestic cups have much higher quality squads than we have. I’m not arguing that the players are out on their feet, but they are quite definitely jaded compared with the first half of the season. 

The defence picks itself every week, there is nobody pushing any of them for a place. Ollie Watkins has absolutely no adequate cover. It’s only in our weakest area of the pitch, midfield that we have any decision making to do as to team selection and apart from Jack. The exercise in midfield is to select the least bad combination. 

Your list of players that haven’t played every game includes Jack and Matt Cash. Are you suggesting that they have been rested? Ramsey is a development player and Sanson is now injured and only joined us in January, so to include him in a list of players that hasn’t played every game is rather silly. Barkley hasn’t played every game because he’s rubbish, nothing to do with adequate quality to allow rotation. If you think that our squad is anything like strong enough over a whole season to be a top 6/7 squad then I’d have to disagree. 

We was talking about Fatigue......it doesn't matter what the reason is, they have not been playing, first team games.....my understanding of Fatigue, is a result of playing too much, there is also a mental element to consider, being out for any reason, rests the mind.

The defence, is the epitomy of things being relatively ok and they have been ever present in the main....hence my doubt about fatigue.....Ollie Watkins himself has had to work on his own and played in every game, if anyone should show fatigue, its him, but in my view he is not showing fatigue....He is still one of our "go to" players.

I am not talking about quality, you mentioned Fatigue and I think its a red herring, sorry.

I accept that fatigue in certain instances can play a huge part in form dips....but in our case, I struggle with that claim, just my view.

Edited April 13, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

Sorry, don't follow you here. 

The discussion is centered around this season and more accurately our present form.

you are going back to when the owners came in, no one is questioning the overall progress, its what has been happening lately.

[sne]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

The discussion is centered around this season and more accurately our present form.

you are going back to when the owners came in, no one is questioning the overall progress, its what has been happening lately.

And for me a lot of that is based on us having a weak and unfinished squad due to it being hastily slapped together in 4 transfer windows since we got promoted. We had Grealish & Mcginn when we came up and little more and we were hardly an attractive option then or the summer before this season when we've only just avoided relegation.

Our squad is weak and time is a factor to why it is. And that we can't currently compete with a West Ham side who is having their best season since they became world champions is hardly eye raising to me.

Form has dropped from earlier in the season when we were over performing. Was always going to happen. I don't think there is any big profound reason to why this is happening. 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Personally I think we're on the beach and have been for a long time, our great start to the season has caused our shit end to the season - along with corona and Jack's injury - it's impossible to tell what corona actually did to us but all our poor form seemingly starts with it yet is largely ignored and it shouldn't be 

Its disappointing but many clubs do it, you can moan that we had a chance of Europe but that's your own unrealistic expectation that they're falling short of

We are going to finish where most of us predicted pre season but the manner in which we're doing it is leaving people unhappy

This season he's fixed the defence, next season he needs to fix the attack, we're a huge work in progress, we had a scrape survival squad last year and scraped survival, we have a mid table squad this year and are finishing mid table, I'll judge him on getting in to the top half / europe when he has a top half / europe squad, we blatantly don't right now 

Personally, I thought Europe was pie in the sky, so no disappointment there for me, except to say, it might affect the quality of player, we are trying to attract in the summer, closed season.

The disappointment for me right now, and not the whole season, is elements in our play.....its the cheap way we give the ball away or fail to retain it, its the ease in which we yield the initiative of the game, its nothing to do with league tables for me, its the game itself, fills me with melancholy.

I think the first thing he needs to fix, now the defence seems reliable...is the midfield....I think fixing that will have a knock on effect to the attack, that is not saying the attack doesn't need strenghtening, of course it does.

Its the engine room, that lacks punch, power and force.....we need more torque and BHP...Its labouring, particularly up hills.

No one doubts, we are work in progress, we will be for some time...its arguable, we always will be, as with every team....when your first signing, needs replacing, its just rolls on, like painting the forth bridge.

[sharkyvilla]

30 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

They currently have a £40m out on loan and earlier this season took a £20m hit when they sold their other £40m player 

West Ham have spent some money to get to where they are

And even then you'd do well to convince me that they'd be having this season with their boo boy fans in attendance 

I noticed they had Benrahma on the bench the other day and could bring him on as a bit of an afterthought.  We were linked heavily with him and if we had chosen to go for him rather than Traore for example he would be playing every week.  That showed how stark the difference is still between us and the likes of them.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, sne said:

And for me a lot of that is based on us having a weak and unfinished squad due to it being hastily slapped together in 4 transfer windows since we got promoted. We had Grealish & Mcginn when we came up and little more and we were hardly an attractive option then or the summer before this season when we've only just avoided relegation.

Our squad is weak and time is a factor to why it is. And that we can't currently compete with a West Ham side who is having their best season since they became world champions is hardly eye raising to me.

Form has dropped from earlier in the season when we were over performing. Was always going to happen. I don't think there is any big profound reason to why this is happening. 

What do you mean? West Ham ,world champions at what?

did anyone say we was over performing when we was playing well?....I just thought it was part and parcel of the progression, having bought Ollie,Emi and Matty.

Look, there maybe a perfectly legitimate and natural reason for our form drop off, and you could be on to something.....that's the debate.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, lexicon said:

foreveryoung getting a lesson in thinking before posting 

I thought it was a legitimate observation....I think Emi has saved us and our defensive stats many times, this season....He's been amazing.

but well done you for saving him from ridicule.

[sne]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

What do you mean? West Ham ,world champions at what?

did anyone say we was over performing when we was playing well?....I just thought it was part and parcel of the progression, having bought Ollie,Emi and Matty.

Look, there maybe a perfectly legitimate and natural reason for our form drop off, and you could be on to something.....that's the debate.

Haven't you heard, they single-handedly won the 1966 WC. 

I certainly thought we were over performing and that we were going to run out of steam, mentioned tons of time in various threads.

Not read through the last 10-20 pages, what is it you think is causing our current form if it isn't recruitment or fatigue? Please don't say anything supernatural or aliens 

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I see it like you....12th this season, as I predicted at the start....8th next season, would be ok....maybe a better cup run.

I don't happen to like the owners of West Ham, but I think they( West Ham) have done very well indeed.....I see a team, not necessarily better than us, individually, but a more rounded outfit.....I hope in the Summer we can improve on that.

Yep, I'd be okay with 10th next season and a really good go at one of the cups. 

I don't like the owners of West Ham either - they've done well, they've taken a route where they've gathered a very physical team, the biggest and strongest players they can find and mixed them together, they've added some pace with Lingaard and it makes them a difficult team to play against - a very big, quick, physical striker, a couple of smarter wingers, positive full backs and five big strong defensive players packing out the defensive areas - I wouldn't describe them as rounded, they're a physical side, athletic, but they're not a team that can football you to death. I think they might struggle a little bit next season to match this seasons expectations and to deal with the additional fixtures, but fair play to them for this season. For me it's a team that doesn't have a very high 'ceiling' to use the modern phrase, but they're wringing a lot out of all that muscle while they can.

I agree with you that it's something we could do with a little more of and I'd like to see us add some real pace into our front three and a little muscle elsewhere this summer - but I wouldn't want to go the whole hog like West Ham have - I think if you look at other teams that are consistently successful, it's about quickness of thought and keeping the ball.

 

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

We have Nakamba, the only player who can play that  defensive role and sometimes he actually does it quite well. Only problem is much like El Ghazi they both need consistent game time, both get chopped in and out all the time, 1 game in 10 then dropped again for 10 games. They can do nothing as subs, not win games or stop other teams from winning games.

Dean tends to turn to Nakamba when everything else fails, same El Ghazi.

None of them are really strong enough to have an impact or 'stop the rot' they need to be fully integrated and playing regularly. Trez can occasionally have an impact as a sub but he was at his best last season after a long run of games, El Ghazi did ok this season when he got a run of games. Nakamba has never had a run of more than 3 games in the side.

Ramsey and Davis are as close as we have to fringe players who could change the outcome of a game but most likely won't. Trez obviously is very sadly out injured.

Not saying it's Dean's fault at all, just saying. I think he has no choice but to give youth a chance, but i can't see it, they might get on the bench but they won't play, hope i'm wrong.

Nakamba is the only dedicated defensive midfielder, in a squad of 25, but sadly, he is not good enough to be in the first team....He has to have more attributes to his game at this level.

Dean  is restricted with options IMO.....we need to fix it,when we are able.

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Nakamba is the only dedicated defensive midfielder, in a squad of 25, but sadly, he is not good enough to be in the first team....He has to have more attributes to his game at this level.

I think that depends on how you define defensive midfield and how you want to play the game - Pirlo, Kante and Matic are all very different players, but all played in the position that you'd associate with your defensive midfielder. I'm not sure Dean Smith wants a sitting midfielder who is all about scrapping and protection - the de-facto fifth centreback that we had with Jedinak for example - I think he's looking for a ball player - where I think midfield has disappointed this year is in retaining the ball - the passing hasn't been good enough.