Dean Smith

[TRO]

23 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it comes down to whether you want to defend more but better, or less often with vulnerabilities. 

We've got very good defenders, but we defend a lot. We don't control games and we spend a lot of time defending our goal.

If you look at Man City for example (and I know they're extraordinary) their theory is that they'll keep the ball and they'll keep it high up the pitch, then if they lose it they'll give a cheap foul in your half or they'll see what happens - they defend reasonably well, but they don't need that extra defensively minded body in there because they keep the ball so well that they don't have to defend very often.

For us I'd like a balance, if we keep the ball better we don't have to defend as often and if we don't have to defend as often, we don't need to sacrifice a position to have a Jedinak style player in there, that's where I'd like us to be, but it needs to come from keeping the ball.

 

I agree.

My theory is this, out of the 10 outfield players....4 are dedicated defenders and 4 are dedicated offensive players.....2 do a bit of both.....me,being very pragmatic.

In our most succesful days, we played 4-3-3.....4, cowans, shaw, morley & Withe were dedicated to scoring goals....Mortimer and Bremner mixed it....cowans did a bit of both too, you could say.

It doesn't matter what formation we choose, that is how it should work IMO.....if players struggle with their job, others have to cover, thats where the problems start.

You are right about keeping the ball, but that is a seperate issue to what formation we choose.....thats more about players applying themselves and doing their job, taking responsibility, for the shirt they have been handed.....They have to punch their own weight, not be chaperoned.

We don't control games, because we haven't got the personnel to do it, and it emanates from Midfield.....That should be pretty obvious by now, to all of us.

Edited April 14, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

17 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I was talking about form - I don't think our form over any 6 games has ever been bottom 3? Maybe the last 6 games, just about, but borderline.

The most league defeats we've had in a row this year is 2. The most games we've gone without a win is 4 (once). None of this sounds like relegation form to me. Teams that go down spend long periods of the season just not winning any games.

You look at last season and we lost 4 games in a row twice. We went 10 games (!) without a win at one stage. That's what relegation form looks like. We've never looked that bad this season, even with Grealish injured. I don't know how people's memories are so short.

Smith knows what needs fixing in this squad. This summer he'll be targeting new wingers as a priority, and then we'll be strengthening our squad options across the pitch - maybe a new DCM, a new box to box midfielder, another striker. Plus we'll have kids breaking through - the likes of Louie Barry who'll be 18 this summer, a more confident Ramsey, maybe one or two more lads from that team who impressed against Liverpool in the cup.

Maybe what bothers Smith's critics is that he doesn't do all the devious stuff of trying to get in the oppo's head and exploit their weaknesses. He mostly just tries to play his game, and coach the players to keep perfecting his patterns of play. So it can be a bit samey, and when results aren't going our way, it can look like he's run out of ideas. But he does tend to put a good run of results together at the end of the season, and if he manages that again this season (which IMO he will if Grealish returns soon), we'll end up in the top half of the table and this season will have been a resounding success.

I think Douglas Luiz could be that box to box midfileder, he might then be played in a position more commensurate with his personality.....and I honestly think we would get much more from him.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, lexicon said:

Cash - Joint 2nd in interceptions
Mings - 7th in clearances, 10th in blocks
Konsa - 4th in blocks, least dribbled past CB in the division

But nah, just Martinez saving our bacon every time 

I didn't say on his own, but I still think Emi has been the outstanding individual in the back 5.....but watch the games is my advice.....and put down the stat book.

Edited April 14, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

22 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I didn’t mention fatigue, I said that we look jaded. Fatigue can be a factor and of course fatigue is both mental and physical. There is no denying that players get jaded at this point in the season which is a big factor in why many of the clubs with better quality squads have strong finishes. Man U under Fergie were renowned for it. Even this season both them and Man City are finishing strongly. 
 

Either way I didn’t mention fatigue once in my post. The main point of my post was the depth of quality which, I believe is lacking in our squad. You seem to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick TRO. Perhaps you’re fatigued...? 

forgive me Dave, I used the word in describing your reference to being jaded .....which I thought was much the same.....Fatigue/Jaded/Tiredness all the same to me.

I still think its down to certain jobs not being done very well....but hey!!!.....its opinions.

Edited April 14, 2021 by TRO

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

I have never said Smith is always right in fact I do say when I think is wrong.  I think you are still missing my point that I tried to write in length about why Smith might not think somebody like JPB is ready.  You are just black and white about playing or not when it isn’t that simple.

Davis is a different story about a choice of a player or not.  We obviously don’t agree generally about Davis or about his future or potential.  As I said he played well against Fulham and thought given our current choices should have been given a chance against Liverpool.

I am not black and white about kids playing.  I do understand your argument that he might not be ready.  My response, as I have stated before, is:

• Even if he isn't ready he couldn't perform much worse than AEG at the minute.
• I'm sure if you asked him he would want to have a go.
• His performance in a competitive game would show us where/what level he needs to be loaned out to next season.
• The pressure/expectation is about as low as it will ever be - we are safe and have no chance of Europe and there are no fans in the ground.
• He is the future (or could be)/AEG hopefully is definitely not.
• Unlike the Liverpool game, where the less developed kids certainly didn't embarrass themselves, he would becoming into a first team environment and playing with internationals.

Your argument is that Smith sees him and makes the call.  So you are assuming that Smith is right on this matter.

But then even you admit that you think he was wrong not to give Davis a chance against Liverpool.  Could he not also be wrong in his assessment of JPB??  Again "given current choices".

[TRO]

22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it comes down to whether you want to defend more but better, or less often with vulnerabilities. 

We've got very good defenders, but we defend a lot. We don't control games and we spend a lot of time defending our goal.

If you look at Man City for example (and I know they're extraordinary) their theory is that they'll keep the ball and they'll keep it high up the pitch, then if they lose it they'll give a cheap foul in your half or they'll see what happens - they defend reasonably well, but they don't need that extra defensively minded body in there because they keep the ball so well that they don't have to defend very often.

For us I'd like a balance, if we keep the ball better we don't have to defend as often and if we don't have to defend as often, we don't need to sacrifice a position to have a Jedinak style player in there, that's where I'd like us to be, but it needs to come from keeping the ball.

 

I agree, we don't control games at all, that to me is more down to personnel.

You say, we defend a lot, but Dean's reputation, is for offensive football and even now states they we go out to win every game.

I also agree, that if you fail to retain the ball a defensive reponse is the natural mechanism employed....we retreat, thats what losing the ball does.

lets be fair, every team loses the ball, even Man City......but its all about how often, and how good are you at winning it back...... we are poor at both.

I read all the post about the wingers, being poor, its hard to disagree......but if we continue to fail to keep the ball, no wingers around, will fix the other issues.....trust me.

It will be good money, chasing bad money.

The issue is midfield.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, sne said:

Absolutely, Our inability to keep the ball up the pitch is a big issue. Our RW options are not good enough and Barkley has been a flop meaning our attacks are short and the team is often stretched when we lose the ball making us easy to pass though for teams who are good at transitions and counters. close down Grealish and half the job is done.

Watkins is probably the best defensive forward in the league but that means diddly squat when Barkley and Traoré can't be bothered to track their runners and give the ball away too easy.

Thank You.

[nick76]

Just now, barry'sboots said:

Even if he isn't ready he couldn't perform much worse than AEG at the minute

Again you don’t understand, being ready and performance is different.  Again you’re thinking black and white

3 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I'm sure if you asked him he would want to have a go.

Why does that even matter.  A five year old would say yes, I would yes, my elderly mother would say yes...who is going to say No

7 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

His performance in a competitive game would show us where/what level he needs to be loaned out to next season.

Oh because that’s the only way we can evaluate him.  I don’t mean to sound like a prick but I’m struggling to take you seriously on some of these things.

9 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

The pressure/expectation is about as low as it will ever be - we are safe and have no chance of Europe and there are no fans in the ground.

Mixing two things here.  Our place in the league is important.  As for pressure on him see above comment

11 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

He is the future (or could be)/AEG hopefully is definitely not.

What has this got to do with the price of cheese....I agree with this point but it’s nothing to do with the argument

i’m giving up, it’s like talking to a flat earther 

13 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Your argument is that Smith sees him and makes the call.  So you are assuming that Smith is right on this matter.

Smith and his coaching staff make the call.  If they thought he was ready they would use him.  Do I always think he’s right? Definitely not but somebody on the internet has very little info, seen only a bit of player compared an experienced, professional coaching staff that sees him daily, with stats, has a development plan and sees him play in training with the first team and has no history of holding back youth....I’m leaning heavily towards Smiths opinion on this one.

18 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

But then even you admit that you think he was wrong not to give Davis a chance against Liverpool.  Could he not also be wrong in his assessment of JPB??  Again "given current choices".

Yeah he could be wrong but the difference between a youth player coming through and a choice of a player like Davis are very different discussions and reasons.  If you can’t understand that I don’t know what to tell you.

I spent years/decades watching the various youths, reserves at Villa, seeing players come through, travelling to the various venues and seeing kids come through.  I don’t assume to know your history but from my history and from seeing my amateurish view of the levels and the years, what Smith is doing is making sense, backed up by Ramsey coming through this season.  Maybe you know youth development better than me, I understand that maybe the case.  I understand players like Gareth Barry and Rooney come through earlier and quicker.  I understand how poor we are at the moment but I also understand the difference between being ready and bringing in just because he’d be better than AEG.

Davis is a different discussion which we have beaten to death and throwing one point where i disagree with Smith still doesn’t make your point of Smith maybe being wrong being valid.

I maybe wrong on Davis, I maybe wrong on the kids.  Smith might be wrong on both as well.  You have to concede you maybe wrong as well and there is a lot riding on it from many angles and the phrase ‘what have we got to lose’.....a lot!

[TRO]

23 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it comes down to whether you want to defend more but better, or less often with vulnerabilities. 

We've got very good defenders, but we defend a lot. We don't control games and we spend a lot of time defending our goal.

If you look at Man City for example (and I know they're extraordinary) their theory is that they'll keep the ball and they'll keep it high up the pitch, then if they lose it they'll give a cheap foul in your half or they'll see what happens - they defend reasonably well, but they don't need that extra defensively minded body in there because they keep the ball so well that they don't have to defend very often.

For us I'd like a balance, if we keep the ball better we don't have to defend as often and if we don't have to defend as often, we don't need to sacrifice a position to have a Jedinak style player in there, that's where I'd like us to be, but it needs to come from keeping the ball.

 

I too am more interested in the balance......I am not all for defence or all for Offence......its horses for courses, during a game.

I agree with your sentiment about retaining the ball, but I think we differ on what type of CDM we have.....Rodri or a young Fermandinho would have been fine for me, they don't have to be like Jedinak....Ndidi or Bissouma would suffice too.

They need to be able to be comfortable on the ball, but they need also to turn the ball over, either by winning it or intercepting it, it doesn't matter how, it matters that its done.

I also think its an easy position to dismiss and play a CM or CAM there.....I think that is a mistake and I don't subscribe to waivering that position, due to a new found skill of retaining the ball......opponents, will always have their time in a game, we have to be prepared for that.....I am not saying fill our squad with them, but I am saying a top class one is/should be priority.

Ps my point is to build a wall quicker, it might require another hod carrier, when a brick layer might seem obvious at first....until the bricky says, i can lay twice as fast as I am, just get me the Bricks & Mortar......our forwards/wingers might be saying get me the ball, more and we will score.

Edited April 14, 2021 by TRO

[Mjvilla]

23 hours ago, sne said:

Absolutely, Our inability to keep the ball up the pitch is a big issue. Our RW options are not good enough and Barkley has been a flop meaning our attacks are short and the team is often stretched when we lose the ball making us easy to pass though for teams who are good at transitions and counters. close down Grealish and half the job is done.

Watkins is probably the best defensive forward in the league but that means diddly squat when Barkley and Traoré can't be bothered to track their runners and give the ball away too easy.

This is absolutely fair enough. I've looked at our possession stats between now and the beginning of the season. There's barely any change. I haven't looked in depth at anything like pass accuracy or anything but I would presume that would be far lower the last few months.

It shows to me that we were far more clinical with the ball in the first half to the second half of this season. There's the difference, for me. 

It's up to deano to work on why we have lost that. I'm sure he is, and I've no doubt he will put it right.

 

 

[TRO]

On 13/04/2021 at 14:32, sheepyvillian said:

It would be interesting to see the comments should Barkley suddenly hit the form he his certainly capable of.

Then the comments would change, with his change in form.

Its not him, folk despise.....its his work.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, nick76 said:

Quick question.  Genuinely interested.

Why dont you believe the covid thing?  Not saying I do but also we don’t know the impacts of covid yet medium to long term and given what it does short term, the chances of seeing impacts on elite athletes might be material to notice a difference if they have had it.  

My point we still don’t know enough above lasting effects of covid for a month later, three months later etc and we know normal people that are suffering, some almost a year after having covid.  

I’m just wondering why you are so convinced?  Again I’m not saying I think it a reason, we were shut down and we know a lot of people had it.  Therefore to say you don’t believe covid so strongly as a reason seems a little presumptuous without real evidence either way.

Again I’m not saying it the reason but to rule it out until we have more evidence as more knowledge around covid is discovered seems not right.  

All we know is we has a lot of people that got covid that we shut down the training ground.  We know from science that more long term effects are being discovered from covid. We know that athletes have to be 100% really to be competitive in this league.  It’s not unreasonable to believe that we may have been impacted slightly by that but until more knowledge is gained it’s only a possible reason but at the moment there is definitely not a reason to completely rule it out.

So aside from your belief, I’m interested in your thoughts.

May, I equally say Nick.....why should we rule it in, or even mention it, in mitigation for poor form, until we know, its affecting us.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

May, I equally say Nick.....why should we rule it in, or even mention it, in mitigation for poor form, until we know, its affecting us.

I think timing!

I’m not saying it’s a reason and I’m not saying it’s not, I think a logical conclusion leads to be able not to rule it out until further evidence.  That means we have no evidence it is a reason but we also cannot say with certainty it isn’t a factor.

Our form changed dramatically after then shutdown, not just a bit but dramatically.  You look at the games just before lockdown and we were playing well performance wise. I went back and looked a few weeks ago when somebody tried to argue we weren’t but in my opinion we were.

We then shutdown the training ground and postponed some matches and many of our players we were told had Covid.  The club then opened back up and our form with Jack and then without Jack has been poor, and more importantly our performances have been really poor.

This in itself doesn’t determine covid is a reason but at the same time before shutdown our performances were good, post shutdown our performances have been poor.  Literally that trigger when our performances changed dramatically.

Secondly, we all have been told the symptoms of covid, we’ve all seen the explanations on the impact of certain organs of the body.  These organs are the same organs that elite footballers use, to be such elite footballers, like lung capacity.  For Ollie to do what he does he needs optimal lung efficiency.

We don’t fully know which of the players had covid, we don’t know how that impacted, damaged or there is residual impact or delay of covid out of the system.  For example when you break a bone, it heals in about six weeks but you generally have some aches and pains for a couple of months afterwards sometimes.  When you have the flu, you can get knock that over quite quickly but sometimes a cough can linger for another week or two.  There has been many scientific discussions about long covid but discovery is still in the early days.

For an elite footballer being 90%-95% effective compared to 100% can be huge and they might not fully know they are slightly under optimal.

So a long answer but the timing is the real key why we can’t exclude at the moment.  We can’t say it’s a reason, we can’t say it isn’t a reason but timing of change of form and the organs that are impacted due to covid means without more scientific discovery we cannot definitely rule it out.

Do I think it’s a reason? I honestly don’t know, I think there are so many reasons why our form has dipped that I went through on a recent post that’s it a bit of everything but I can’t agree with people who don’t think, with what seems a level of certainty, that covid wasnt an impact just because the timing.  It’s hard to dismiss the timing because it’s the point of change.

Edited April 14, 2021 by nick76

[AvfcRigo82]

11 hours ago, nick76 said:

Despite you not wanting to believe it, somebody has shown on this site that is not true by a recent form league table.

You’re so in love with Leeds and Bielsa for some reason despite being a Villa fan. Repeated over and over again.  Surely if you wanted to be impressed by someone it would be a lot better than Leeds and Bielsa.  You can see why some joke that you’re a Leeds fan given your obsession with them and their manager.  It’s very bizarre.

[foreveryoung]

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think timing!

I’m not saying it’s a reason and I’m not saying it’s not, I think a logical conclusion leads to be able not to rule it out until further evidence.  That means we have no evidence it is a reason but we also cannot say with certainty it isn’t a factor.

Our form changed dramatically after then shutdown, not just a bit but dramatically.  You look at the games just before lockdown and we were playing well performance wise. I went back and looked a few weeks ago when somebody tried to argue we weren’t but in my opinion we were.

We then shutdown the training ground and postponed some matches and many of our players we were told had Covid.  The club then opened back up and our form with Jack and then without Jack has been poor, and more importantly our performances have been really poor.

This in itself doesn’t determine covid is a reason but at the same time before shutdown our performances were good, post shutdown our performances have been poor.  Literally that trigger when our performances changed dramatically.

Secondly, we all have been told the symptoms of covid, we’ve all seen the explanations on the impact of certain organs of the body.  These organs are the same organs that elite footballers use, to be such elite footballers, like lung capacity.  For Ollie to do what he does he needs optimal lung efficiency.

We don’t fully know which of the players had covid, we don’t know how that impacted, damaged or there is residual impact or delay of covid out of the system.  For example when you break a bone, it heals in about six weeks but you generally have some aches and pains for a couple of months afterwards sometimes.  When you have the flu, you can get knock that over quite quickly but sometimes a cough can linger for another week or two.  There has been many scientific discussions about long covid but discovery is still in the early days.

For an elite footballer being 90%-95% effective compared to 100% can be huge and they might not fully know they are slightly under optimal.

So a long answer but the timing is the real key why we can’t exclude at the moment.  We can’t say it’s a reason, we can’t say it isn’t a reason but timing of change of form and the organs that are impacted due to covid means without more scientific discovery we cannot definitely rule it out.

Do I think it’s a reason? I honestly don’t know, I think there are so many reasons why our form has dipped that I went through on a recent post that’s it a bit of everything but I can’t agree with people who don’t think, with what seems a level of certainty, that covid wasnt an impact just because the timing.  It’s hard to dismiss the timing because it’s the point of change.

Trying to justify our poor form 'may' be down to Covid is utter bollox. I have not heard or seen no other team or single player in the whole of Europe having poor form which may be down to the effects of Covid, or any other athlete to be honest. It just seems some are finding anything to deflect the blame, that Smith, may just have run out of ideas without Grealish. I'm not saying he has, but it must be purely coincidental, Jack out, Villa shite.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Trying to justify our poor form 'may' be down to Covid is utter bollox. I have not heard or seen no other team or single player in the whole of Europe having poor form which may be down to the effects of Covid, or any other athlete to be honest. It just seems some are finding anything to deflect the blame, that Smith, may just have run out of ideas without Grealish. I'm not saying he has, but it must be purely coincidental, Jack out, Villa shite.

You are constantly being negative. I laid out a reasonable argument and never said it was a real reason just that we don’t know at this point to rule it out but timing is more on point than anything else.  

Your wise wisdom and knowledge of infectious diseases has concluded its utter bollox or is it that you’re constantly negative and looking for any excuse to be even more negative.  it’s who you are at the moment but that’s fine, you think and comment as you like, it’s just plain weird and sad.

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

forgive me Dave, I used the word in describing your reference to being jaded .....which I thought was much the same.....Fatigue/Jaded/Tiredness all the same to me.

I still think its down to certain jobs not being done very well....but hey!!!.....its opinions.

I wouldn’t really disagree with you there TRO. Why these jobs are no longer being done as well as they were earlier in the season is the question we’d all like the answer too. Probably a number of factors all adding together in some strange complex way. Managers, coaches etc probably never 100% know exactly why they sometimes get everything right, sometimes everything just clicks. Conversely they are at times at a loss to explain why everything they touch turns to shit. 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Then the comments would change, with his change in form.

Its not him, folk despise.....its his work.

You could have fooled me.

[useless]

He's going nowhere, he was at the FA Youth Cup game today with Purslow and Shakespeare. Hopefully a strong finish to the season.

[Indigo]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Trying to justify our poor form 'may' be down to Covid is utter bollox. I have not heard or seen no other team or single player in the whole of Europe having poor form which may be down to the effects of Covid, or any other athlete to be honest. It just seems some are finding anything to deflect the blame, that Smith, may just have run out of ideas without Grealish. I'm not saying he has, but it must be purely coincidental, Jack out, Villa shite.

Don't really care to get involved in or fuel the utterly tedious agendas on either side of the Smith debate, but you would have if you had even the most cursory of Google searches on it. Just saying.