Jump to content

Dean Smith


Demitri_C

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

This is the part I don’t understand.  You agree Smith lacks options but you decry that he’s stubborn that he uses the only options he has.  Obviously he doesn’t favour Davis which is his choice but aside from that what are his other options that you agree he lacks.  I’m confused, genuinely.

We can debate Davis endlessly.  I certainly believe, as I think you do to, that his Fulham performance has earned a greater chance.

We could try JPB.  I know, again, that you are sceptical of playing youth and believe that Dean watches them and knows they are not ready, but, much like Davis, I don't think JPB could be any less effective than AEG and I am sure, if you asked the kid, he would jump at the chance.

He could try a different formation e.g. a 4-3-1-2 or a 3-4-1-2 etc..

These changes might not work!  I don't think anybody on here is saying that they have sure fire tactics to win a game/Smith is ignoring an obvious change, but I think most of us are looking for Smith to at least give something different a try.  I personally think that there is nothing more demoralising as a fan starting with a team that you can 100% predict is going to deliver a flat performance and would much rather try something different and get hammered but at least have some hope.  Particularly this season when there is little risk and we can experiment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Exactly this.  Even Wrighty was saying that we were the cool kids on the block.  No-one is saying that now!!

I can't understand how a midfield three that looked so good against Liverpool and Arsenal (a) can now look so bad. Can Luiz - who was great from Restart to Christmas - suddenly have turned into the poor player we have seen this year OR is he just trying to deter Citeh from exercising the buy-back??  Where has the SJM from the Championship and before his injury last season gone -I thought he was back after the first 10 games or so.  And I was sceptical of Barkley but massively positive after his first few games but now the poor kid looks like he couldn't get into Remi Garde's Villa??  This is just mad?!

As said earlier, Smith is always honest in his assessment of games where we have played poor but it has happened for ten games plus in a row now and not once has he offered a reason why?

There's all kinds of reasons, no fans, covid, lack of confidence, injuries, squad depth, Jack out etc etc There was no way we were going to maintain that early season form over the 38 games, just an impossibility. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, The Other Mat said:

There's all kinds of reasons, no fans, covid, lack of confidence, injuries, squad depth, Jack out etc etc There was no way we were going to maintain that early season form over the 38 games, just an impossibility. 

Maybe, maybe not, but I don't recall ever seeing such a drastic change in sustained form of a complete midfield?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the 7-2 while it was great at the time has confused a lot of people into how good our players are, 3 games before that game we stayed up on the last day of the season. In the opinions of some fans its the worst thing we could have done as they had weird expectations after it

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Exactly this.  Even Wrighty was saying that we were the cool kids on the block.  No-one is saying that now!!

I can't understand how a midfield three that looked so good against Liverpool and Arsenal (a) can now look so bad. Can Luiz - who was great from Restart to Christmas - suddenly have turned into the poor player we have seen this year OR is he just trying to deter Citeh from exercising the buy-back??  Where has the SJM from the Championship and before his injury last season gone -I thought he was back after the first 10 games or so.  And I was sceptical of Barkley but massively positive after his first few games but now the poor kid looks like he couldn't get into Remi Garde's Villa??  This is just mad?!

As said earlier, Smith is always honest in his assessment of games where we have played poor but it has happened for ten games plus in a row now and not once has he offered a reason why?

Why do you think this has happened?  I wrote a few days ago why I thought it has happened and if I can find it I’ll repost it and it was a bunch of reasons but wondering what you and others think.  Forget new systems, formations, other players on the bench coming into it etc, why do you believe something that was working really well, now is not?

As for Smith, he’s more honest than most as you say but I’m not sure there is a reason why he’d go into detail of why because he’ll be working on that behind the scenes and also he might not want to be negative about some players for various reasons.  He’s providing diplomatic honest answers which is more than most managers which realistically the best you can expect isn’t it?  But I’m more interested why you think that something working well is now not working well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think the 7-2 while it was great at the time has confused a lot of people into how good our players are, 3 games before that game we stayed up on the last day of the season. In the opinions of some fans its the worst thing we could have done as they had weird expectations after it

I bet the fans who never liked Smith because the job was too big for him were furious throughout as well :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

We can debate Davis endlessly.  I certainly believe, as I think you do to, that his Fulham performance has earned a greater chance.

We could try JPB.  I know, again, that you are sceptical of playing youth and believe that Dean watches them and knows they are not ready, but, much like Davis, I don't think JPB could be any less effective than AEG and I am sure, if you asked the kid, he would jump at the chance.

He could try a different formation e.g. a 4-3-1-2 or a 3-4-1-2 etc..

These changes might not work!  I don't think anybody on here is saying that they have sure fire tactics to win a game/Smith is ignoring an obvious change, but I think most of us are looking for Smith to at least give something different a try.  I personally think that there is nothing more demoralising as a fan starting with a team that you can 100% predict is going to deliver a flat performance and would much rather try something different and get hammered but at least have some hope.  Particularly this season when there is little risk and we can experiment.

There is load of risk to be fair.  The higher we end up the better perception wise we are to potential targets.  Showing we are a top ten team is better than being 12th.  Finishing on a high or decent is better than a poor finish to potential targets.  It’s only one factor but is a factor in joining a team on the up than a team that started well but are fading.

You answer your own question re youth, he sees the all the time and doesn’t think they are ready.  You keep saying about JPB and AEG but obviously Smith doesn’t think he’s ready.  You do because you see some clips, possibly some lower level games whereas Smith sees them daily, probably mixing in training with the first team and believes they are not ready.  

The point I don’t understand, if Smith felt they, let’s say JPB, could do a better job than AEG then why would he not play them?

I am with you that AEG has been poor recently.  I just don’t understand what reason apart from Smith not think JPB is ready that he would not play him. I feel you want more of an answer than that.  It maybe irrelevant AEGs form, it may be that Smith and coaching staff feel that JPB isn’t ready for the first team based on Smith and co experience, what they see of him on the training ground with first team players, his development plan...and whatever other things they look at.  I feel like you want it to be a conspiracy or reluctance of Smith to play kids who are ready or something.  

Why can it not just be, despite us playing poorly and some players being really poor, that Smith and his vast coaching team have closer evaluated somebody like JPB at close quarters daily, with everything from first team training, training with the U23’s, development plan, physical stats, coaches and everything....that JPB is not ready for first team football? Compared to some on here who have seen some clips and a few games of football at a much lower level and concluded that he should be given time because a first teamer is playing poor.

I just can’t wrap my head why people can’t see the above.

We all want youth to come through, it been great seeing Ramsey come through this season despite some mixed performances and Smith and co thought he was ready and benched him when he faded.  That was good management.  Can’t we trust somewhat what Smiths doing by how he’s done with Ramsey?  If he had a history of ignoring youth I would understand your point but he doesn’t plus we have one of the youngest teams in the PL.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TRO said:

but with respect, you are drifting again, in to the season.....of course we wasn't anywhere close to relegation form, in the first 15 games......The concerns being raised are now, last c6 games.

Its very subjective to say relegation form, but look where we are in the form league over the last 6 games and you will get your answer.

I think folk on here are debating on different parallels.....some are concerned with our form and others are answering back on the season as a whole......The season has been great, because we made ourselves safe with early season form.

I was talking about form - I don't think our form over any 6 games has ever been bottom 3? Maybe the last 6 games, just about, but borderline.

The most league defeats we've had in a row this year is 2. The most games we've gone without a win is 4 (once). None of this sounds like relegation form to me. Teams that go down spend long periods of the season just not winning any games.

You look at last season and we lost 4 games in a row twice. We went 10 games (!) without a win at one stage. That's what relegation form looks like. We've never looked that bad this season, even with Grealish injured. I don't know how people's memories are so short.

Smith knows what needs fixing in this squad. This summer he'll be targeting new wingers as a priority, and then we'll be strengthening our squad options across the pitch - maybe a new DCM, a new box to box midfielder, another striker. Plus we'll have kids breaking through - the likes of Louie Barry who'll be 18 this summer, a more confident Ramsey, maybe one or two more lads from that team who impressed against Liverpool in the cup.

Maybe what bothers Smith's critics is that he doesn't do all the devious stuff of trying to get in the oppo's head and exploit their weaknesses. He mostly just tries to play his game, and coach the players to keep perfecting his patterns of play. So it can be a bit samey, and when results aren't going our way, it can look like he's run out of ideas. But he does tend to put a good run of results together at the end of the season, and if he manages that again this season (which IMO he will if Grealish returns soon), we'll end up in the top half of the table and this season will have been a resounding success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

There is load of risk to be fair.  The higher we end up the better perception wise we are to potential targets.  Showing we are a top ten team is better than being 12th.  Finishing on a high or decent is better than a poor finish to potential targets.  It’s only one factor but is a factor in joining a team on the up than a team that started well but are fading.

You answer your own question re youth, he sees the all the time and doesn’t think they are ready.  You keep saying about JPB and AEG but obviously Smith doesn’t think he’s ready.  You do because you see some clips, possibly some lower level games whereas Smith sees them daily, probably mixing in training with the first team and believes they are not ready.  

The point I don’t understand, if Smith felt they, let’s say JPB, could do a better job than AEG then why would he not play them?

I am with you that AEG has been poor recently.  I just don’t understand what reason apart from Smith not think JPB is ready that he would not play him. I feel you want more of an answer than that.  It maybe irrelevant AEGs form, it may be that Smith and coaching staff feel that JPB isn’t ready for the first team based on Smith and co experience, what they see of him on the training ground with first team players, his development plan...and whatever other things they look at.  I feel like you want it to be a conspiracy or reluctance of Smith to play kids who are ready or something.  

Why can it not just be, despite us playing poorly and some players being really poor, that Smith and his vast coaching team have closer evaluated somebody like JPB at close quarters daily, with everything from first team training, training with the U23’s, development plan, physical stats, coaches and everything....that JPB is not ready for first team football? Compared to some on here who have seen some clips and a few games of football at a much lower level and concluded that he should be given time because a first teamer is playing poor.

I just can’t wrap my head why people can’t see the above.

We all want youth to come through, it been great seeing Ramsey come through this season despite some mixed performances and Smith and co thought he was ready and benched him when he faded.  That was good management.  Can’t we trust somewhat what Smiths doing by how he’s done with Ramsey?  If he had a history of ignoring youth I would understand your point but he doesn’t plus we have one of the youngest teams in the PL.

I don’t get why some fans don’t seem to be able to grasp this concept either. It’s like hitting your head against a brick wall. You my friend are a very patient man still trying to explain this. 

If any of our youngsters looked ready in training they would play. The fact Ramsey has played so many minutes is proof of this. If the likes of JPB looked much better than AEG in training why wouldn’t Smith give him minutes? What would he get out of not using him?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say 80% of form has gone because Jack isn't playing, there ya go I said it. He makes the team tick, he calls for the ball, he creates, he picks up the pace of the game. An before you say form dipped before we lost him, yes it did, but he was obviously carrying the injury for sometime, to me probably making it worse. I'm not sure why many don't want to admit this, as we all can't wait for him to return to start winning a few again can we, an admitted, we can hardly win a game without him and it shows.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I would say 80% of form has gone because Jack isn't playing, there ya go I said it. He makes the team tick, he calls for the ball, he creates, he picks up the pace of the game. An before you say form dipped before we lost him, yes it did, but he was obviously carrying the injury for sometime, to me probably making it worse. I'm not sure why many don't want to admit this, as we all can't wait for him to return to start winning a few again can we, an admitted, we can hardly win a game without him and it shows.

Yes, the lack of plan B is a bit if a worry.

Dean needs to start figuring out how to combat this and find a winning team without him, because without Jack we look like a team of lost souls at times and it's exposing Dean as looking like a very limited manager who heavily depends on one player.

We witnessed the same thing happen in the Championship when Jack got the same injury.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

I think the 7-2 while it was great at the time has confused a lot of people into how good our players are, 3 games before that game we stayed up on the last day of the season. In the opinions of some fans its the worst thing we could have done as they had weird expectations after it

 

9 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I bet the fans who never liked Smith because the job was too big for him were furious throughout as well :)

 

200.gif

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I would say 80% of form has gone because Jack isn't playing, there ya go I said it. He makes the team tick, he calls for the ball, he creates, he picks up the pace of the game. An before you say form dipped before we lost him, yes it did, but he was obviously carrying the injury for sometime, to me probably making it worse. I'm not sure why many don't want to admit this, as we all can't wait for him to return to start winning a few again can we, an admitted, we can hardly win a game without him and it shows.

I think a lot of people admit that Jack is a huge loss but this is what happens when a star player is missing. Bayern without Lewandowski, Leicester without Vardy, United last season before Bruno signed are teams that struggle without there superstar

It happens to a lot better squads than ours

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think a lot of people admit that Jack is a huge loss but this is what happens when a star player is missing. Bayern without Lewandowski, Leicester without Vardy, United last season before Bruno signed are teams that struggle without there superstar

It happens to a lot better squads than ours

One player out shouldn't mean the whole system falls apart.

You don't build a team around one player. No top managers do that.

Don't think anyone would disagree with you in the notion that we'd be a weaker team without Jack Grealish. But we should still be able to see good football without him.

Take Leeds as an example. Rafinha is arguably their best player by far. If you took him out they wouldn't suddenly turn into shit and play a whole different way. I'm pretty certain of it.

Edited by villalad21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

The 5 games Raphinha didnt start since joining Leeds have lost 4 including being hammered by Crawley and Crystal Palace and won 1 🙄

I'm not talking about results buddy.

Talking about general play. Creating chances. Scoring goals etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Zatman said:

The 5 games Raphinha didnt start since joining Leeds have lost 4 including being hammered by Crawley and Crystal Palace and won 1 🙄

I think their with and without Philips record is the most damning. Would be interesting  know what if is. They still try and play the same way but he really does make them tick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, villalad21 said:

I'm not talking about results buddy.

Talking about general play. Creating chances. Scoring goals etc

Crystal Palace beat them 4-1 so did Leicester and Crawley beat them 3- 0. Suppose the general play was fine in them trashings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...
Â