Peter Griffin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Does anyone know what Bees or Walsall were like defensively when Deano was in charge. Did they have a reputation for being tight or a bit flaky and does anyone know what ROK actually did in training. Was he focused on any particular aspect of play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 hours ago, foreveryoung said: He didn't throw it at Smith, he threw it at Shakespere. I believe it did happen, cause if anyone saw Sanson's face when El Ghazi got picked to come on, you could understand his frustration. You think that’s bad, you should have seen my face when El Ghazi came on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 That’s not a knock on El Ghazi by the way. He’s not an impact sub. We desperately needed some aggression in the final stages to try and inject a bit of energy into our attacks, and if there’s one thing El Ghazi is specifically not going to offer, it’s aggression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaVilla Posted October 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: No, it isn’t a fib it is a simple fact. I did say anything about the rest of the season. What I said was factually correct, you’ve gone on to comment on the rest of that season, I made no mention of it. The reality though was people at the time were disappointed the start we made that season, two years and a lot of money later we are no better. That is a valid point after a quarter of the season. I don’t for one minute think we will finish the season as badly as we did that year, although out current form is pretty terrible. I am though sick of being told our start has been okay, that we’ve been unfortunate with injuries, that he needs more time. It has been a poor start, we’ve played poorly in nearly every game and the excuses about injuries just do not cut it. It hasn’t been good enough from Smith, not remotely close. Interesting post. For anyone interested, comparing like for like results/fixtures from 20/21 and 21/22, we are doing very poorly. A direct comparison to year on year specific fixture results show we have performed better in 2 fixtures (Manure/Everton), the same in 1 fixture (Newcastle), and worse in 6 fixtures (Brentford, Arsenal, Watford, Chelsea, Wolves, Spurs). Our like for like points comparison in the same games year on year, is 10 points in 21/22 compared to 18 points gained in 20/21 versus the same fixtures. FYI - for direct comparison, i swapped the bottom 3 (relegated teams), with the matched 3 promoted teams to allow direct comparison, ie: if a team finished 17th in the PL last season, i swapped that with the team who finished 1st in the Champ etc. Additionally, we are actually below our points tally after 9 games if you compare 21/22 to 19/20, now i'm not concerned about relegation, but the comparison shows how poorly we have started the season. Graph/table info for nerds: In this table, red is a worse result versus previous year, yellow is the same, and green is better (based on points attained): This graph hopefully speaks for itself: 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You think that’s bad, you should have seen my face when El Ghazi came on. were you in raptures of pleasure???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Watching City dismantle Brighton makes you wonder if it’s just really hard to be a midtable manager in the Premier League and not get turned over occasionally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaVilla Posted October 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Watching City dismantle Brighton makes you wonder if it’s just really hard to be a midtable manager in the Premier League and not get turned over occasionally. I would propose that getting turned over by Man City is an entirely different proposition to getting turned over by Watford, Wolves, Arsenal, Spurs etc. But ye, i see your point. Edited October 23, 2021 by MaVilla 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Interesting post. For anyone interested, comparing like for like results/fixtures from 20/21 and 21/22, we are doing very poorly. A direct comparison to year on year specific fixture results show we have performed better in 2 fixtures (Manure/Everton), the same in 1 fixture (Newcastle), and worse in 6 fixtures (Brentford, Arsenal, Watford, Chelsea, Wolves, Spurs). Our like for like points comparison in the same games year on year, is 10 points in 21/22 compared to 18 points gained in 20/21 versus the same fixtures. FYI - for direct comparison, i swapped the bottom 3 (relegated teams), with the matched 3 promoted teams to allow direct comparison, ie: if a team finished 17th in the PL last season, i swapped that with the team who finished 1st in the Champ etc. Additionally, we are actually below our points tally after 9 games if you compare 21/22 to 19/20, now i'm not concerned about relegation, but the comparison shows how poorly we have started the season. Graph/table info for nerds: In this table, red is a worse result versus previous year, yellow is the same, and green is better (based on points attained): This graph hopefully speaks for itself: Thanks, this is interesting and slightly dismal reading. Although speaking as a personal preference, I don’t really like saying, essentially, “Brentford are Sheffield United”. Because they’re not. If we knew the three promoted clubs were going to be relegated then it would be fairer to equate them. But Brentford could have a storming season and finish top half so comparing our results with them to last season’s results with bottom placed Sheffield United is arbitrary. Basically, I think there are only 32 “like for like” matches and (I think) Villa are negative three points on last season. It needs to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Watching City dismantle Brighton makes you wonder if it’s just really hard to be a midtable manager in the Premier League and not get turned over occasionally. It is really difficult to be a mid table manager in the PL and not get turned over occasionally. But that is because occasionally the mid table teams have to play the likes of Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea. But to make up for that mid table managers also get to play games against the likes of Watford, Brentford, Wolves and Arsenal where they shouldn't be turned over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Thanks, this is interesting and slightly dismal reading. Although speaking as a personal preference, I don’t really like saying, essentially, “Brentford are Sheffield United”. Because they’re not. If we knew the three promoted clubs were going to be relegated then it would be fairer to equate them. But Brentford could have a storming season and finish top half so comparing our results with them to last season’s results with bottom placed Sheffield United is arbitrary. Basically, I think there are only 32 “like for like” matches and (I think) Villa are negative three points on last season. It needs to get better. fair point, but the only fair way to try and get an actual comparison year on year that i can see, is align the relegated 3 with the promoted 3, its not perfect and may import some minor irregularities, but its a fair way to do it i would say. Interesting to compare anyways, even with some minor matching issues. Just the way i like to do it, but i can see why some might not like it. Edited October 23, 2021 by MaVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, MaVilla said: I would propose that getting turned over by Man City is an entirely different proposition to getting turned over by Watford, Wolves, Arsenal, Spurs etc. But ye, i see your point. We lost most of those games by 1 or 2 goals. Brighton are probably going to lose 6-0 here (famous last words…). My point was more, these highly rated managers around Smith will all also have nightmare games and spells of bad form. And trust me, Brighton will get thrashed by a mid/lower table team at some point this season. League football works like that. You have little runs of form, and little spells where everything looks shite. And then a bit of luck goes your way and everyone starts to believe again. People on VT read way too much into a handful of games and construct these grand narratives about lost dressing rooms and out of depth coaches. Like I said earlier, not defending Smith’s recent performances, but far too early to be debating his future at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheLegendOfLeonBailey31 Posted October 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Interesting post. For anyone interested, comparing like for like results/fixtures from 20/21 and 21/22, we are doing very poorly. A direct comparison to year on year specific fixture results show we have performed better in 2 fixtures (Manure/Everton), the same in 1 fixture (Newcastle), and worse in 6 fixtures (Brentford, Arsenal, Watford, Chelsea, Wolves, Spurs). Our like for like points comparison in the same games year on year, is 10 points in 21/22 compared to 18 points gained in 20/21 versus the same fixtures. FYI - for direct comparison, i swapped the bottom 3 (relegated teams), with the matched 3 promoted teams to allow direct comparison, ie: if a team finished 17th in the PL last season, i swapped that with the team who finished 1st in the Champ etc. Additionally, we are actually below our points tally after 9 games if you compare 21/22 to 19/20, now i'm not concerned about relegation, but the comparison shows how poorly we have started the season. Graph/table info for nerds: In this table, red is a worse result versus previous year, yellow is the same, and green is better (based on points attained): This graph hopefully speaks for itself: It's a shit three game run highlighted by the Wolves collapse. They finish off that game and we're probably all feeling quite different. My main concern right now, aside from Dean indicating it's not a "system issue", is perhaps the chemistry in and around the club. I mentioned in another post/thread that a month ago the team seemed thick as thieves... fast forward a month, with a run of 3 poor games, now a fully fit squad, including youngsters like JPB and Carney deserving time, and I think things are getting a little questionable. Obviously I have zero idea, but just going off the performances and the body language etc of the team... it doesn't appear to be good. Deano has tough decisions to make fielding the squad and keeping everybody happy going forward. Really really interested to see how they come out a week from tomorrow. I think that's a must win. At the very least you need a draw. Here's hoping its a feel good three points. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: It is really difficult to be a mid table manager in the PL and not get turned over occasionally. But that is because occasionally the mid table teams have to play the likes of Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea. But to make up for that mid table managers also get to play games against the likes of Watford, Brentford, Wolves and Arsenal where they shouldn't be turned over Except that isn’t how it works at all. eg last year we beat Liverpool 7-2 and lost 3-1 to West Ham. Nothing is neat and tidy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, TheLegendOfLeonBailey31 said: It's a shit three game run highlighted by the Wolves collapse. They finish off that game and we're probably all feeling quite different. My main concern right now, aside from Dean indicating it's not a "system issue", is perhaps the chemistry in and around the club. I mentioned in another post/thread that a month ago the team seemed thick as thieves... fast forward a month, with a run of 3 poor games, now a fully fit squad, including youngsters like JPB and Carney deserving time, and I think things are getting a little questionable. Obviously I have zero idea, but just going off the performances and the body language etc of the team... it doesn't appear to be good. Deano has tough decisions to make fielding the squad and keeping everybody happy going forward. Really really interested to see how they come out a week from tomorrow. I think that's a must win. At the very least you need a draw. Here's hoping its a feel good three points. Good post - and you’re right, so much of it hinges on that Wolves result. Smith’s job is to get some belief back in that squad. Needs to change something up, even if it’s just to draw a line under recent performances in the players’ heads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted October 23, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2021 I think this perceived change of the mood of the squad is more of a projection of the mood of a small group of fans than it is anything to do with the players. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said: It is really difficult to be a mid table manager in the PL and not get turned over occasionally. But that is because occasionally the mid table teams have to play the likes of Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea. But to make up for that mid table managers also get to play games against the likes of Watford, Brentford, Wolves and Arsenal where they shouldn't be turned over Do you really believe midtable teams only lose to the top 5 or 6 clubs? Everton finished 10th last season. They lost to Newcastle twice, lost to Fulham, lost to Sheffield United, lost to Burnley and Southampton. There continues to be this narrative that We're some sort of unusual midtable type team when there's no evidence to support it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I think the problems Smith has are deeper than simply losing 3 games in a row and I don't believe that fans are turning because of the results. The talk about us being a mid table team and that these things happen and all teams will get turned sound like reasons to justify the poor results and ignore what is happening on the pitch. Imo, the reason people are questioning Smith's role as Gaffer is because the way we are playing football and his apparent inability to fix the issues. We do not have a style of football and our player don't appear to know what they are meant to be doing. Smith is unable to get Ollie and Ings to work together yet he persists and he is unable to get 3 CBs to work, yet he persists. This in turn, is starting to reflect in individual performances and we are looking really bad. We just don't look like a team and this is 100% down to Smith, it is not a transition period and it is not due to injuries. It is his responsibility to get us playing as a team and at the moment he is not succeeding. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Do you really believe midtable teams only lose to the top 5 or 6 clubs? Everton finished 10th last season. They lost to Newcastle twice, lost to Fulham, lost to Sheffield United, lost to Burnley and Southampton. There continues to be this narrative that We're some sort of unusual midtable type team when there's no evidence to support it. Its not the results that is the concerning issue, it is the overall team performance and lack of style and ability to fix it Edited October 23, 2021 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Its not the results that is the concerning issue, it is the overall team performance and lack of style and ability to fix it I wouldn't disagree with that. I just completely disagree with this idea that we're not like previous midtable teams. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I just completely disagree with this idea that we're not like previous midtable teams. Genuine question. Not sure what this refers to, what teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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