Dean Smith

[AvfcRigo82]

11 hours ago, useless said:

I think I'm at the stage where I feel if we're not going to get a genuine top manager then we might as well just stick with Smith, no point swapping him for someone similar like Dyche, Howe, or Hughton and going around in circles, that's what we've been doing for the last ten years or so, Smith was meant to be different, if he goes time to try something diffeent.

You might not be wrong there in saying this and it might not get as far as the end of the season before it happens.

It's fair to say that the short term answer is already with us, ready and waiting.

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You can't just say plan to come up like wolves and Sheffield united. Compare how many teams come up and finish in the top 6 to how many teams come and go straight back down. 

I have just said it.

Because they don't prepare their team correctly for this arduous league.

posters have said it themselves, established premier league teams, thats what all teams who come up are up against.....you cannot just scrape up by your finger nails and hope to survive.....However, we spent £140 million, so we had a good go, pity the recruiters, did not match the funders.

Wolves and Sheff utd are a total contrast in styles, but they do both have one essential ingredient to survive in this league, they concede very few goals....and when they do concede they  make opponents work very hard for it.

In contrast, we are so benevolent, its scary.

I have watched Villa for over 60 years.....we have predominately been a team, who don't give teams much quarter, never been really expansive, may be in '77 we was but rarely. we have never been a Man Utd, even in our greatest time in the early eighties, we was mean and based on a 110% workrate mantra.

This team has beem one of the most open and passive that i have seen, we have been sucked in by the ethos of copying the top teams, but failing to see the workrate and combative spirit they attach to their game.......we try to play, without earning the right to.

is is simply going to end in tears.....and in my opinion, it is there to see.

[Mjvilla]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

They wasn't established when they came up.....based on your comments, teams just book a one season ticket and disappear down their hole.....rubbish.

The plan should be, you come up like Wolves and Sheff Utd and build on it.....based on solid foundations.

We have well and truly cocked up and based our model on sand as opposed to concrete.....we have simply blown it.

The philosophies of Villa and Norwich have proved to be fanciful.

Our foundations were non-existent. We had 2 players good enough for the premier league when we came up? I can't think of more than that. Wolves and sheff utd came up with good foundations. Settled squads. 

In my opinion, we came up too soon. Smith is the victim of his own success.

[sne]

1 minute ago, Mjvilla said:

Our foundations were non-existent. We had 2 players good enough for the premier league when we came up? I can't think of more than that. Wolves and sheff utd came up with good foundations. Settled squads. 

In my opinion, we came up too soon. Smith is the victim of our previous owners and managers incompetence.

FTFY

But I think for Smith as a manager it might have been a year or 5 too soon with PL football. He's being out thought and tactically outwitted on a weekly basis and he has not been able to implement any sort of tactic into his team. I hoped for a much more coherent style of play even thou I fully expected us to be up against it this season.

[peterw]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

They wasn't established when they came up.....based on your comments, teams just book a one season ticket and disappear down their hole.....rubbish.

The plan should be, you come up like Wolves and Sheff Utd and build on it.....based on solid foundations.

We have well and truly cocked up and based our model on sand as opposed to concrete.....we have simply blown it.

The philosophies of Villa and Norwich have proved to be fanciful.

Hardly fanciful. The planning, or philosophy if you prefer, was for us to build last season and push on this season with a more solid foundation. Winning ten games on the bounce, although welcome, gave us the momentum to go up. We went up without the solid base needed - the spine was a - 3rd choice keeper/on loan central defenders/McGinn/and an on loan forward. Through jack into the mix and that's what we had. 

Most sides going up have that solid base and were it not for Solskjaer hedging his bets and Chelsea's transfer ban it is likely that we would have kept hold of Tuanzebe and Abraham. We didn't and we had to go out and re-build in 6 weeks and try to get them working as a team. Up to Christmas it seemed to be working fine but then we fell off a cliff figuratively and we are struggling to get back on top of it.

If buts and maybes and we'll never know how much losing Heaton/McGinn/Wesley hurt us but I'm guessing when you're trying to build and build a 'philosophy' it doesn't help. We may need to go down to keep building and to come back stronger. it as happened before and I expect that's what will happen this time.Should Smith go? Maybe, but I'm not sure who could come in to realistically change it. Plenty of names are bandied about but we should try and and remain as calm as possible. If Smith goes its likely that Terry will take over in the interim unless someone is lined-up, and a top coach won't come in before the end of the season just to see where we end up.

Which leaves us with the usual candidates that may keep us up/ may not. But one thing for sure is that they'd impose their philosophy. In the space of 3-4 weeks or so. I'd stick.

 

[Mjvilla]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

FTFY

But I think for Smith as a manager it might have been a year or 5 too soon with PL football. He's being out thought and tactically outwitted on a weekly basis and he has not been able to implement any sort of tactic into his team. I hoped for a much more coherent style of play even thou I fully expected us to be up against it this season.

I'd agree with that. And also the fix to the previous post. But don't mention previous managers incompetence with @TRO around!!

In all seriousness though, I think what Smith did last season is quickly forgotten. It hasn't been good enough this season, I'm sure Smith (despite what he would say in the media) knows it hasn't been good enough. And that's where he has struggled. In overcoming this. 

[villalad21]

49 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Haha you always do this. 

You make a ridiculous comment, get called out on it and then just switch it to something completely different. 

Its brilliant. 

It's actually the same exact thing. Newcastle got a man advantage. So did we against West Ham.

Newcastle managed to take advantage of it, we did not.

Us failing in taking advantage of playing against 10 men is just another reason to why we are where we are in the table.

Edited June 24, 2020 by villalad21

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Mjvilla said:

Our foundations were non-existent. We had 2 players good enough for the premier league when we came up? I can't think of more than that. Wolves and sheff utd came up with good foundations. Settled squads. 

In my opinion, we came up too soon. Smith is the victim of his own success.

You would not of got away with that claim at the start of the season. They would have laughed at you.

just tell me what team can afford to spend £140 million to stabilise in coming up, that was a god send....we just puffed it up in smoke.

The euphoria was massive, when we come up, no mention of poor foundations....only Tammy was the real blow in losing and we thought we had found his replacement, supported by how quick out the trap we was to sign him.

If we keep failing to get solid players in, we will continue to have this level of turnover of players....its not  one poor summer, its been happening in previous seasons, too.

We didn't come up too soon.....The squad is so thin on the type of players, who can help us stay in this league....that is the real problem.

Its foresight, judgement and organisation.....that is lacking.

[peterw]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

You would not of got away with that claim at the start of the season. They would have laughed at you.

just tell me what team can afford to spend £140 million to stabilise in coming up, that was a god send....we just puffed it up in smoke.

The euphoria was massive, when we come up, no mention of poor foundations....only Tammy was the real blow in losing and we thought we had found his replacement, supported by how quick out the trap we was to sign him.

If we keep failing to get solid players in, we will continue to have this level of turnover of players....its not  one poor summer, its been happening in previous seasons, too.

We didn't come up too soon.....The squad is so thin on the type of players, who can help us stay in this league....that is the real problem.

Its foresight, judgement and organisation.....that is lacking.

In their joint interview at the start of the season Purslow and Smith both said they were planning for promotion this season and if anything we went up a season early. 

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It's actually the same exact thing. Newcastle got a man advantage. So did we against West Ham.

Newcastle managed to take advantage of it, we did not.

Us failing in taking advantage of playing against 10 men is just another reason to why we are where we are in the table.

you're right...but still means diddly squad with respect to you ridiculing smith for saying we're hard to beat, when he was actually 100% correct. so you can move the conversation away from your original point as much as you like, but know when to hold your hands up and admit when you're wrong mate

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, peterw said:

Hardly fanciful. The planning, or philosophy if you prefer, was for us to build last season and push on this season with a more solid foundation. Winning ten games on the bounce, although welcome, gave us the momentum to go up. We went up without the solid base needed - the spine was a - 3rd choice keeper/on loan central defenders/McGinn/and an on loan forward. Through jack into the mix and that's what we had. 

Most sides going up have that solid base and were it not for Solskjaer hedging his bets and Chelsea's transfer ban it is likely that we would have kept hold of Tuanzebe and Abraham. We didn't and we had to go out and re-build in 6 weeks and try to get them working as a team. Up to Christmas it seemed to be working fine but then we fell off a cliff figuratively and we are struggling to get back on top of it.

If buts and maybes and we'll never know how much losing Heaton/McGinn/Wesley hurt us but I'm guessing when you're trying to build and build a 'philosophy' it doesn't help. We may need to go down to keep building and to come back stronger. it as happened before and I expect that's what will happen this time.Should Smith go? Maybe, but I'm not sure who could come in to realistically change it. Plenty of names are bandied about but we should try and and remain as calm as possible. If Smith goes its likely that Terry will take over in the interim unless someone is lined-up, and a top coach won't come in before the end of the season just to see where we end up.

Which leaves us with the usual candidates that may keep us up/ may not. But one thing for sure is that they'd impose their philosophy. In the space of 3-4 weeks or so. I'd stick.

 

It seems contradictory to progress, and development and players settling in.....when we are better in the early periods of the season.

we should be better now, if settling in and acclimatisation is a legitimate claim.

most teams are always in a state of flux, its a part of the game, its dynamic, not static.

I think we make too many excuses, to keep ourselves on side....some hometruths are needed for us to improve.

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

you're right...but still means diddly squad with respect to you ridiculing smith for saying we're hard to beat, when he was actually 100% correct. so you can move the conversation away from your original point as much as you like, but know when to hold your hands up and admit when you're wrong mate

"hard to beat" Chelsea didn't struggle. They were just being very wasteful all game. We literally allowed them to cross as much as they wanted.

Sheffield United have proved to be absolutely horrendous after the break so i don't look too much into that draw.

That being said i think we'll comfortably beat Newcastle. I think they are a terribly limited side. But after that we play Wolves, Liverpool and Man Utd. Not looking forward to that.

Edited June 24, 2020 by villalad21

[Mjvilla]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

You would not of got away with that claim at the start of the season. They would have laughed at you.

just tell me what team can afford to spend £140 million to stabilise in coming up, that was a god send....we just puffed it up in smoke.

The euphoria was massive, when we come up, no mention of poor foundations....only Tammy was the real blow in losing and we thought we had found his replacement, supported by how quick out the trap we was to sign him.

If we keep failing to get solid players in, we will continue to have this level of turnover of players....its not  one poor summer, its been happening in previous seasons, too.

We didn't come up too soon.....The squad is so thin on the type of players, who can help us stay in this league....that is the real problem.

Its foresight, judgement and organisation.....that is lacking.

Just a couple of things:

I don't think anyone wouldve laughed if I said we only had 2 players good enough for the PL. in fact, I think people would have agreed. Mcginn, Grealish. One of which has been injured for a large chunk. Name another? We didn't have a squad, it was universally agreed on here from my memory. 

£140 m wasn't for stabilising, it was for building a squad completely. No other team has had to come up and build an entire squad. Not from my memory. Stabilising would be adding to the squad we already had. That's what other teams do, established PL teams. Teams who get promoted and have squads (Norwich, sheff utd, wolves) in recent years. We didn't. And I'm sure if I go back we were all talking about how many players we needed and what a big rebuild was needed. Indirectly saying we had poor foundations. 

[peterw]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

It seems contradictory to progress, and development and players settling in.....when we are better in the early periods of the season.

we should be better now, if settling in and acclimatisation is a legitimate claim.

most teams are always in a state of flux, its a part of the game, its dynamic, not static.

I think we make too many excuses, to keep ourselves on side....some hometruths are needed for us to improve.

Undeniably Wesley was getting better before his injury, at Burnley, for the first time we actually looked like a team and looked like we could be a very good team. Settling in doesn't just happen overnight - it took Bergkamp something like 2/3 months before his first league goal for Arsenal for example. it doesn't happen overnight even for the best. The other thing to bear in mind that in almost all positions we were looking to bring in young players who we identified as those that would develop. The signings of Luiz, Wesley, Engels (to a degree), Heaton were heralded with some fanfare as it showed that we looked like we had a plan and meant business.

 

Sadly, for one reason or another it has hit the buffers from January onwards. Sometimes its difficult to fix a slide and not easy when you are chopping and changing as players lose form. I'd put it down to a mixture of circumstance, the players, and Smith's inability to raise them. i don't think that is justification to sack him though.

[tinker]

Its going to be a pivotal game tonight , Newcastle should have their confidence up and we will surrender ground and sit deep allowing them to grow. I really do fear every game now, if we concede early we are almost guaranteed to ship loads of goals . You can see this fear in the players, a nervousness that ends in desperate performances. 

Maybe some physiological coaching would help, they need to lose their fear and start to play to their maximum ability , were not seeing that now and thats why its so frustrating

[peterw]

I think it would be better to play against a team ceding possession and ground to us. That way we'd have Jack on the ball in positions we'd like to see him. He alone is better than anything that Newcastle have, and if McGinn can get some more legs into his game we'd be a totally different proposition than seen in the last couple of games.

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

Its going to be a pivotal game tonight , Newcastle should have their confidence up and we will surrender ground and sit deep allowing them to grow. I really do fear every game now, if we concede early we are almost guaranteed to ship loads of goals . You can see this fear in the players, a nervousness that ends in desperate performances. 

Maybe some physiological coaching would help, they need to lose their fear and start to play to their maximum ability , were not seeing that now and thats why its so frustrating

They may have their confidence up but their still a terrible football team.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

It's actually the same exact thing. Newcastle got a man advantage. So did we against West Ham.

Newcastle managed to take advantage of it, we did not.

Us failing in taking advantage of playing against 10 men is just another reason to why we are where we are in the table.

We beat 10 men Brighton or does that not fit the change the topic agenda today

[tomav84]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We beat 10 men Brighton or does that not fit the change the topic agenda today

no there will be some other mitigating factor for that one

[nick76]

I'm interested to see what happens after tonight.  If we lose then this board will stay the same and convinced we are relegated but if we win and are outside the relegation zone I wonder if the mood changes? 

Before anybody comments that we dont look like winning at the moment, I understand that point but lets hypothetically say we did win, I wonder if the tone of this board changes? also I'm guessing for some it will be the manner of the win i.e. a lucky 1-0 win or a comfortable (relative to Villa) 3-1 win for example. 

It would be nice to have some positivity on this board for even just a few days.  I know that is mainly the players and coaching staffs fault but we do have a few on here that are constantly negative whatever happens and in their opinion rightly and I have no issue with that but it would be nice that the general tone on here is maybe some optimism, which includes the knowledge that next season we must do so much better if we survive (discussions about how that happens aside).