Tegis Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 JDS though, all this hype about what a 'great' boxer he is, they must have low standards, he wouldn't last 3 rounds against a European standard heavyweight. "Great boxer for MMA" is the term you are looking for. You cant compare the two sports. Boxers are absolute specialists in one thing. A European standard middleweight would own everyone in the UFC in straight boxing, regardless of weight. These guys must defend/attack a shitload of other stuff. Put the best heavyweight boxer around in a MMA rules fight and he would be grapple-**** for 15 minutes by a decent middleweight on the pure basis that he doesn't train it. The two sports cant be compared, they just cant Far, far too many fights in the past year or so seem to have gone to decisions, and in the UFC a decision seems so much more unsatisfying than in a boxing match (I think mostly because a decision in MMA is that much more intangible than a boxing match... as well as MMA pretty much allowing fights to descend into less than a spectacle, even if the ref is on the ball with standups and the like). I've been kinda put off watching my recording of 155 from this morning because I know theres a lot of decisions in there... Skip all but the Co main and main event. It was garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 You're right, they can't be compared, and the experiments they've had have been hilarious. I couldn't believe it when an extremely overweight and over-the-hill James Toney faced off against Randy Couture. It was never going to end well for old 'Lights Out'. What I would say is that an elite level boxer would still have a punchers chance against an elite MMA'er, although it would be slim as the obvious thing to do is to just take down the boxer and put him in some sort of submission move. Whereas an elite MMA'er wouldn't have any sort of chance against an elite boxer in a boxing rules only sort of event. But again, it's just apples and oranges as far as comparing the two sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 You're right, they can't be compared, and the experiments they've had have been hilarious. I couldn't believe it when an extremely overweight and over-the-hill James Toney faced off against Randy Couture. It was never going to end well for old 'Lights Out'. What I would say is that an elite level boxer would still have a punchers chance against an elite MMA'er, although it would be slim as the obvious thing to do is to just take down the boxer and put him in some sort of submission move. Whereas an elite MMA'er wouldn't have any sort of chance against an elite boxer in a boxing rules only sort of event. But again, it's just apples and oranges as far as comparing the two sports. Exactly this. There is one hilarious exception, granted it involves a kickboxer but still. Shinya Aoki, regarded as one of the best, if not "the" best submission grappler in MMA, agreed to a fight with Yuichiro Nagashima, a bad ass kickboxer. It was going to be 2 rounds. Starting with a round of kickboxing and then a round of MMA. Aoki spent the entire first round running around like a spazzed out badger avoiding Nagashima at all cost. It was a farce and he got roundly booed which is rare in Japan. He pulled it off. The second MMA-round started and Aoki confidently walked in initiated his grappling, only to be KTFO in 2 seconds with a flying knee. It was BEAUTIFUL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh8DSxV0On4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) You're right, they can't be compared, and the experiments they've had have been hilarious. I couldn't believe it when an extremely overweight and over-the-hill James Toney faced off against Randy Couture. It was never going to end well for old 'Lights Out'. That wasn't an experiment, it was a sideshow. Toney needed money, DFW needed ammo for his squabbling with that crusty old prick Arum and an agreement that suited both parties was agreed. I'd be too embarrassed to be involved in such a discussion in 2012 to comment on the rest of your post. Shinya Aoki, regarded as one of the best, if not "the" best submission grappler in MMA By who? Certainly not anyone with the faintest idea what they were talking about. Edit - It was hilarious to see him get splayed out though. Edited December 30, 2012 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 By who? Certainly not anyone with the faintest idea what they were talking about. Edit - It was hilarious to see him get splayed out though. You dont think he's one of the best grapplers competing in MMA? I'm not saying one of the best fighters btw. I don't know if it's intentional or coming off poorly in print, but the tone in you posts above is a bit uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) You dont think he's one of the best grapplers competing in MMA? I'm not saying one of the best fighters btw. I don't know if it's intentional or coming off poorly in print, but the tone in you posts above is a bit uncalled for. Yeah, sorry about the tone, I've been reading the main forum a bit too much. The antique Boxing vs MMA argument didn't help either. As far as Aoki is concerned, he's a very good grappler but to suggest he's even in the discussion for being "the" best is not realistic IMO. He's nowhere close, probably not even top 20 AFAIC. Edit - Submission grappling he's maybe top 30, if we're talking about grappling in general he's not top 50 IMO. Edited December 30, 2012 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 Gotcha. No worries. Who do you hold high in the MMA game in either grappling derivative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Gotcha. No worries. Who do you hold high in the MMA game in either grappling derivative? The guys who've done well in the ADCC and actually are moving / have moved to MMA are pretty much the cream of the crop as far as sub grappling goes. Roger, Braulio, Lister, Maia and Palhares come to mind. Chris Weidman also impressed despite only being a purple belt when he competed and Matt Serra is coaching him. Edit - Almost forgot Vinny and Werdum, both killers and had the best match of the 2011 event. There are more great freestyle wrestlers than you can shake a stick at, and there are good judokas (Ronda, Lombard and obviously Ishii) and hopefully Khabilov is the crest of a wave of Sambo competitors wrecking everything they can lay their hands on. Edited December 30, 2012 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 hopefully Khabilov is the crest of a wave of Sambo competitors wrecking everything they can lay their hands on. Those are really an untapped market for the American promoters. Only Bellator have really dipped their toe there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Those are really an untapped market for the American promoters. Only Bellator have really dipped their toe there. And they are all pantshittingly exciting. Shame that massive one (Gunganishvilli?) lost his M1 title really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 31, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2012 The Velasquez JDS fight is one of the most onesided fights i can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted January 16, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2013 Old Strikforce fighters now signed to the UFC. Add Woodly and Mein from earlier. Biggest omission is probably Josh Barnett but he and Dana don't mix very well. Heavyweight: Daniel Cormier (11-0) Light Heavyweight: Gegard Mousasi (33-3-2) Gian Villante (10-3) Middleweight: Roger Gracie (6-1) Tim Kennedy (15-4) Lorenz Larkin (13-0) Luke Rockhold (10-1) Ronaldo Souza (17-3) Welterweight: Roger Bowling (11-3) Jason High (16-3) Nate Marquardt (32-11-2) Tarec Saffiedine (14-3) Bobby Voelker (24-8) Lightweight: Ryan Couture (6-1) Pat Healy (29-16) Kurt Holobaugh (8-1) Adriano Martins (24-6) Gilbert Melendez (21-2) K.J. Noons (11-6) Josh Thomson (19-5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Those are the ones that have signed so far.. Im sure Barnett will be in negotiations.. Surprised OSP's name isn't on the list thus far.. Im sure he will end up on the UFC aswell. Fejao once his suspension is up will more than likely sign aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted January 16, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2013 Those are the ones that have signed so far.. Im sure Barnett will be in negotiations.. He made $250 000 in the last bout from what I read, negotiations will be frisky :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 He is 9-1 in his last 10 fights with that only loss being to Cormier.. Out of those 9 wins he finished 8 with just the 1 going to a decision. I know Dana has issues with him for testing positive back in 02 when he won the UFC Heavyweight title, but surely his return is well overdue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteEndRob Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Cormier will be a good addition to the heavyweight division. It's a shame about Barnett but it wouldn't surprise me if he's back in the UFC soon. Let's face it, they need as many decent heavyweights as possible because the current division is hardly stacked with top quality fighters at the moment. I know Dana has issues with a lot of fighters but I'm sure I remember him saying that Nate Marquardt would never fight in the UFC again? He's obviously changed his stance for that one! I'm a big fan of Gilbert Melendez and for me it is only a matter of time before he becomes the lightweight champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I'm a big fan of Gilbert Melendez and for me it is only a matter of time before he becomes the lightweight champion. Melendez v Henderson is set for UFC on Fox on April 20th. Bendo will wreck Melendez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted January 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2013 a wave of Sambo competitors wrecking everything they can lay their hands on. Well, Nurmagomedov had a epic shirt on at tonights weigh-in, in Brazil of all places Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The weigh ins last night will always be remembered for the camel toes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel1Avfc Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 "Great boxer for MMA" is the term you are looking for. You cant compare the two sports. Boxers are absolute specialists in one thing. A European standard middleweight would own everyone in the UFC in straight boxing, regardless of weight. These guys must defend/attack a shitload of other stuff. Put the best heavyweight boxer around in a MMA rules fight and he would be grapple-**** for 15 minutes by a decent middleweight on the pure basis that he doesn't train it. The two sports cant be compared, they just cant JDS has claimed he thinks he could KO Wladimir Klitschko, thats the reason why hes compared to pro boxers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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