Israel, Palestine and Iran

[chrisp65]

It’s a good point about religion. If a tribe of atheists took my home and my livelihood and I had to leave and live in destitution I’d be an awful lot more forgiving about it.

[Thug]

7 hours ago, Pongo Waring said:

No. Britain have nothing to do with problem in 2023. It's 3453.954 miles away. This conflict is all about religion, Islam and Judaism. Two groups of people that will never get along. The Arab world doesn't want Judaism being in the middle east. The Jews don't want Islam being in Israel.

This doesn't answer the question to why the neighbouring countries are turning a blind eye to it. Why not help and take in the innocent civilians! I've heard Egypt have built a war to stop people from fleeing? 

The conflict isn’t about religion.  The Muslims and the Christian’s were getting along fairly normally before the British forced a new people in.  
They would get along fine if the invader didn’t have ambitions to take the whole land for themselves.

The conflict is about theft & abuse - and the West having a presence in the Middle East.

The British creating problems wherever they go.

Why should they leave their home?  The whole process is designed to get rid of them.

[Mic09]

11 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

I disagree it is about religion just taken to the extreme.

Close, my take on it is a tool to justify conflict behind ideology (I.e. religious extremism).

 

They believe in the same God. Old testament prophets are celebrated in both Judaism and Islam. Islam and Judaism have long lived in relative peace, traded with each other and lived in the same lands.

The religions are fundamentally similar, at least they have the very same background. 

Judaism is treated less as a religion, but more as a 'race' and 'people'. You have secular Jews who are involved in this conflict, in the same way that I am sure many Palestinians are not exactly 'exemplary' Muslims and are still pretty pissed off about their land being taken away from them. 

Saying this conflict is about religion is a little like saying 9/11 was about religion - which is only a half truth. It was a response of a fundamentalist group to the US influence within the middle east. And that's despite the fact that both Taliban and the US worked together to win in Afghanistan against the Russians.

You can blame a lot on, to some, imaginary guy up in the skies. 

But when you take that away, it's about goods, money, influence, land - my people deserve this, your people deserve that. You know, the stuff that secular people have always done too. 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Mic09

[magnkarl]

35 minutes ago, Thug said:

The conflict isn’t about religion.  The Muslims and the Christian’s were getting along fairly normally before the British forced a new people in.  
They would get along fine if the invader didn’t have ambitions to take the whole land for themselves.

The conflict is about theft & abuse - and the West having a presence in the Middle East.

The British creating problems wherever they go.

Why should they leave their home?  The whole process is designed to get rid of them.

Not really true though. There's been Jews in the area for as long as you can trace history.

Here, from the official consensus of Romans, Brits, Ottomans or whatever.

Or before then, from Persian records:

 

It's a huge misconception that there wasn't Jews there when WW2 was finished, one often pushed by Arab nations such as Iran and Syria to justify having murder of Jews in their constitutions. Add to it that Islam and Christianity has had a habit of forced conversion (belive in Jesus/Allah or die!), the figures likely have huge grey areas.

Edited October 12, 2023 by magnkarl

[Mic09]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Not really true though. There's been Jews in the area for as long as you can trace history.

Here, from the official consensus of Romans, Brits, Ottomans or whatever.

Or before then, from Persian records:

 

It's a huge misconception that there wasn't Jews there when WW2 was finished, one often pushed by Arab nations such as Iran and Syria to justify having murder of Jews in their constitutions.

Of course there were Jews living there, pretty much since religions conception and Abraham. 

Other people have lived there too. 

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Of course there were Jews living there, pretty much since religions conception and Abraham. 

Other people have lived there too. 

Yeah, I did just post a table with the two other religions there too. No one's denying that. I'm denying that falsehood that is constantly spread about Jews being a new thing in Israel in 1948.

Edited October 12, 2023 by magnkarl

[LondonLax]

Biden seems to believe the beheading stories.

 

 

 

[KentVillan]

Is it particularly important if the babies were beheaded or shot or stabbed? Whatever the method, it seems clear a lot of innocent children were murdered.

[Chindie]

16 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Biden seems to believe the beheading stories.

 

 

 

White House officials have clarified he hasn't seen this and is commenting on the reports everyone's heard.

[LondonLax]

6 minutes ago, Chindie said:

White House officials have clarified he hasn't seen this and is commenting on the reports everyone's heard.

I suspect it is probably going to be the case that some children were found with missing body parts but it was not some sort of ritual beheading, rather the result of high power weapons being used in close quarters on small bodies. 

[brommy]

3 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Is it particularly important if the babies were beheaded or shot or stabbed? Whatever the method, it seems clear a lot of innocent children were murdered.

It disturbs me that there is a fascination in the method of baby/child murder and that some methods are apparently more heinous and therefore other methods, whilst still unacceptable are more tolerable. Whether disinformation on the method of child murder was used, there's no denial that child murder happened. I see no reason to increase my disgust if children were beheaded or lower my disgust if they were shot or stabbed to death.

There's something wrong with human nature if there is a reason to alter the method of mass murder of babies, children, or adults, before publicising it. The method shouldn't matter.

Edited October 12, 2023 by brommy
Spelling.

[Mic09]

51 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Yeah, I did just post a table with the two other religions there too. No one's denying that. I'm denying that falsehood that is constantly spread about Jews being a new thing in Israel in 1948.

It's crazy isn't it. They have always lived there to a smaller or greater extent. That's where Jews are originally from.

 

[Mic09]

4 minutes ago, brommy said:

It disturbs me that there is a fascination in the method of baby/child murder and that some methods are apparently more heinous and therefore other methods, whilst still unacceptable are more tolerable. Whether disinformation on the method of child murder was used, there's no denial that child murder happened. I see no reason to increase my discust if child were beheaded or lower my discust if they were shot or stabbed to death.

There's something wrong with human nature if there is a reason to alter the method of mass murder of babies, children, or adults, before publicising it. The method shouldn't matter.

I see no great difference in stabbing or bombing. A life is a life regardless of how you take it. 

And if you take that into consideration, the west looks like the worst offender of the century. 

[brommy]

2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I see no great difference in stabbing or bombing. A life is a life regardless of how you take it. 

And if you take that into consideration, the west looks like the worst offender of the century. 

Quite possibly, unless collateral deaths are considered a relevant issue, such as targeting military or militant resources that attempt to use civilian areas as 'protection', but that's a discussion not just for this conflict.

[chrisp65]

Wait until Biden sees how many tens and tens of thousands of people including children were shot dead in the U.S. last year, he’ll probably just nuke the place.

 

[Genie]

From the outside looking in, attacking your neighbour when the lives of your 2.4m population relied on that neighbour’s survival might be the stupidest thing in history.

 

[brommy]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

From the outside looking in, attacking your neighbour when the lives of your 2.4m population relied on that neighbour’s survival might be the stupidest thing in history.

 

Perhaps like being trapped in a room by a wasp nest blocking the doorway and deciding the only solution is to punch open the nest.

[magnkarl]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

From the outside looking in, attacking your neighbour when the lives of your 2.4m population relied on that neighbour’s survival might be the stupidest thing in history.

 

Yeah, religious zealotry doesn't really win the Darwin award. Just like going to a Mosque and performing Jewish rites there when it's banned by the Israeli constitution doesn't either. Those 2 million people don't mean anything to Hamas.

I wish they'd settle this like medieval kings and just have a duel. That one eyed Hamas idiot vs. Benny or Ben Gvir with no weapons. They'd be exposed for the tiny little men they all are.

[Wainy316]

12 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

GB News (I flicked it on for a laugh whilst scrolling through the news channels) are running a piece right now with some complete tool of a presenter, with the archetypal face you’d like to punch, running a piece about why Gary Lineker and the rest of the ‘lovey brigade’ are not condemning Hamas - seriously.

Oh look, it's the 'anti-establishment', 'anti mainstream media' news channel towing the line of both the establishment and the main stream media again.

[magnkarl]

17 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Oh look, it's the 'anti-establishment', 'anti mainstream media' news channel towing the line of both the establishment and the main stream media again.

I think you'll find that GB news are doing it because of the religion of the people in the Gaza strip and their skin colour, more than actually doing what the mainstream is telling them to do.