Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[magnkarl]

13 hours ago, KentVillan said:

The sad thing is Zelenskyy *did* try to reach a compromise with Russia when he first came in and got hammered and let down by all sides. It’s really no surprise at all that he has gone down this path.

The only thing I don’t really get is the obsession with a No Fly Zone. As has been said repeatedly, most of the damage has been done by heavy artillery ground forces. And NATO have done a pretty good job of arming Ukraine to the teeth in an efficient way.

When I was younger I wanted a sports car badly (mid life crisis, hey?), in reality I wanted a small audi or saab convertible, but since my wife is essentially very quick to say no to anything of the sort I went for the big win - a jaguar. She said no, I then had room to manouver down to the car I in reality wanted.

Zelensky is doing the same thing with nato, he's asking for the ferrari, knowing full well he won't get it so that he can instead quite easily wrangle anti-air systems, anti tank weapons and huge sums of monetary aid.

[Panto_Villan]

10 hours ago, bickster said:

Seen any other Russian protestors giving interviews lately?

The BBC appear to have fallen for it hook line and sinker though

Yeah, something doesn't quite add up. She's been let off very easily and it's deeply strange she's still being allowed to speak now.

But it does seem a really odd tactic on behalf of the Kremlin to actively undermine their own propaganda efforts. I guess they think most of the population won't believe what the TV editor was saying and will continue to believe the propaganda - but it seems an awfully big risk for very little gain. Even if the BBC take it at face value the coverage still ends up being "ordinary citizens are standing up to the Kremlin" which makes Putin look weak and Russia look divided, which surely weakens their hand in any negotiation to end the war.

[Jareth]

The Russians are so far down the rabbit hole of their own attack on the truth, that whatever happens, nobody is going to believe anything they say. The potentailly fake protest on TV doesn't really matter if it's real or not, the effect of it was negative for Russia, albeit barely. Just glad going forwards there will be no further patience for these gangsters and they will be countered immediately on everything they say or do.

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, magnkarl said:

When I was younger I wanted a sports car badly (mid life crisis, hey?), in reality I wanted a small audi or saab convertible, but since my wife is essentially very quick to say no to anything of the sort I went for the big win - a jaguar. She said no, I then had room to manouver down to the car I in reality wanted.

Zelensky is doing the same thing with nato, he's asking for the ferrari, knowing full well he won't get it so that he can instead quite easily wrangle anti-air systems, anti tank weapons and huge sums of monetary aid.

You should have ditched her, bought the sports car and blown the rest on hookers.

Edited March 16, 2022 by sidcow

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

You should have ditched her, bought the sorts car and blown the rest on hookers.

That's the Russian approach not the Ukrainian

[magnkarl]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

You should have ditched her, bought the sorts car and blown the rest on hookers.

I was happy enough when I got my trusty saab 9-3. If I was Putin I'd probably drive over her with a tank..

The only car I ever had that I sold for more than I bought it for..

I see that the US and NATO have once again upped the hardware they're sending. I wonder when they'll actually drive one of the patriot systems over the border..

[magnkarl]

Pinch of salt on the accuracy. Incredibly damaging to Russia if true. This would make it the fourth general killed so far, along with the reported 8 that Putin has purged in Russia.

BT2's and snipers, a potent weapon against officers. 

[bannedfromHandV]

12 hours ago, bickster said:

Seen any other Russian protestors giving interviews lately?

The BBC appear to have fallen for it hook line and sinker though

Fallen for what though?

I’m struggling to see an advantage for Russia in setting all this up.

Is very strange though that she hasn’t been disappeared and was given a small fine only, I took that to assume that she was too ‘high profile’ to be disappeared easily and doing so may have whipped up further opposition.

Edited March 16, 2022 by bannedfromHandV

[Mozzavfc]

5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Fallen for what though?

I’m struggling to see an advantage for Russia in setting all this up.

Is very strange though that she hasn’t been disappeared though and was given a small fine only, I took that to assume that she was too ‘high profile’ to be disappeared easily and doing so may have whipped up further opposition.

Someone explained it better a few pages ago, but basically it's so Putin can point at her and say 'look how nice I am to protesters' while hundreds (if not thousands) of lower profile protesters disappear

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Fallen for what though?

I’m struggling to see an advantage for Russia in setting all this up.

Is very strange though that she hasn’t been disappeared and was given a small fine only, I took that to assume that she was too ‘high profile’ to be disappeared easily and doing so may have whipped up further opposition.

So Putin can say he is tolerant of opposition views

There is no Live TV News in Russia, it has a 4 second delay to prevent such incidents happening

Why write bits in English when the vast majority of Russians don't speak it

There's a whole bunch of things that don't add up with the story tbh

[Chindie]

29 minutes ago, bickster said:

So Putin can say he is tolerant of opposition views

There is no Live TV News in Russia, it has a 4 second delay to prevent such incidents happening

Why write bits in English when the vast majority of Russians don't speak it

There's a whole bunch of things that don't add up with the story tbh

On that basis there's no live news anywhere in fairness. They all use a delay to prevent broadcast of unacceptable content. I believe it's actually recommended practice by the regulator in the UK.

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, Chindie said:

On that basis there's no live news anywhere in fairness. They all use a delay to prevent broadcast of unacceptable content. I believe it's actually recommended practice by the regulator in the UK.

I presume it is too. the time delay live broadcast, invented in the West Midlands for Tony Butler on BRMB

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

I presume it is too. the time delay live broadcast, invented in the West Midlands for Tony Butler on BRMB

On yer bike!

[hippo]

I hope I am wrong but the talks of a breakthrough in talks don't add up to me. If all ukraine had to do was promise not to join to join NATO I believe they would have done that prior to the invasion. I think its a bit of spin to say there was a deal on the table but Russia chose to continue the war.

I am really not sure Russia would go for small territorial gains and a Ukraine promise not to join NATO. 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

I hope I am wrong but the talks of a breakthrough in talks don't add up to me. If all ukraine had to do was promise not to join to join NATO I believe they would have done that prior to the invasion. I think its a bit of spin to say there was a deal on the table but Russia chose to continue the war.

I am really not sure Russia would go for small territorial gains and a Ukraine promise not to join NATO. 

I think you have to bear in mind that the pre-invasion Russia is not the Russia of today. The same for Ukraine. The worldview is completely different to what it was a month ago

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, Mozzavfc said:

Someone explained it better a few pages ago, but basically it's so Putin can point at her and say 'look how nice I am to protesters' while hundreds (if not thousands) of lower profile protesters disappear

 

59 minutes ago, bickster said:

So Putin can say he is tolerant of opposition views

There is no Live TV News in Russia, it has a 4 second delay to prevent such incidents happening

Why write bits in English when the vast majority of Russians don't speak it

There's a whole bunch of things that don't add up with the story tbh

Not just this.

Also to stem the (over the top IMO) wave of Russophobia spreading around the West right now. "NOT ALL RUSSIANS"

I went to a hardware shop yesterday (one of the chains) and they had a huge sign saying 'We don't sell to Russians' in Polish, English and Russian FFS.

[hippo]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

I think you have to bear in mind that the pre-invasion Russia is not the Russia of today. The same for Ukraine. The worldview is completely different to what it was a month ago

I guess so.

But lives have been lost, billions of £ in damage, Russia international trading capability tarnished - and now all for a deal that was probably on the table anyway ???? - Madness of war I suppose.

I pray to god I am wrong - I just don't see Putin going for that.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

Not just this.

Also to stem the (over the top IMO) wave of Russophobia spreading around the West right now. "NOT ALL RUSSIANS"

I went to a hardware shop yesterday (one of the chains) and they had a huge sign saying 'We don't sell to Russians' in Polish, English and Russian FFS.

I guess it'll be hard to know who's Russian though?

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

I guess it'll be hard to know who's Russian though?

Aim that at the shop's absurd policy.

[magnkarl]

10 minutes ago, hippo said:

I hope I am wrong but the talks of a breakthrough in talks don't add up to me. If all ukraine had to do was promise not to join to join NATO I believe they would have done that prior to the invasion. I think its a bit of spin to say there was a deal on the table but Russia chose to continue the war.

I am really not sure Russia would go for small territorial gains and a Ukraine promise not to join NATO. 

You always start negotiations based on your hand.

Ukraine's hand was weaker at the start of the war than it is now.

Russia's hand is weaker now than it was at the start of the war.

Even if Russia's losses and lack of progress is halved to what is reported, it's still staggering. Putin does not have the non-nuclear arms capacity to occupy, beat the ua forces and at the same time posture to NATO nations. If losses are halved to what UA forces report, he's lost something like 400 soldiers, 50 armoured vehicles, 30-40 tanks per day ++++. With economic sanctions he doesn't have the capacity to replace this modern weaponry. The long game is Ukraine's, the short game was Russia's.