markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) @terrytiniYou know what mate fair enough you go with what you think we need and I'll go with what I believe it will take. Twelve games in it really doesn't matter does it as a lot can happen over 34 games. Maybe I am being a bit too much glass half full. We'll see. Edited October 16, 2017 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I feel like I’ve followed Trump and Alice down the rabbit hole !! 86 for 2nd is “ logical “ ? 86 would get you 3rd last year 86 gets you 4th the year before 86 gets you 3rd or 4th the year before 86 gets you 3rd the year before. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 Points for 2nd place 16/17 - 93 15/16 - 89 14/15 - 89 13/14 - 93 12/13 - 79 11/12 - 88 10/11 - 84 09/10 - 91 08/09 - 83 07/08 - 79 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: Actually, it isn’t 86 it’s 88. Even that is a little false due to the unusually low figure in the 12/13 season. Fair enough. Looking at the standard of teams this season and no real stand out side yet aside from Wolves I think it may well be a low year for finishing in the automatic spots. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, TrentVilla said: Points for 2nd place 16/17 - 93 15/16 - 89 14/15 - 89 13/14 - 93 12/13 - 79 11/12 - 88 10/11 - 84 09/10 - 91 08/09 - 83 Yes. Ask Brighton how many points they needed for 2nd last year and I guarantee they will say 93. Not 86, 88, 42, or any other number !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Points for 2nd place 16/17 - 93 15/16 - 89 14/15 - 89 13/14 - 93 12/13 - 79 11/12 - 88 10/11 - 84 09/10 - 91 08/09 - 83 Had Brighton got 86 last season they would have finished second. Same would apply on a lot of those other season you listed where the team in second fished 4,5,6,7 etc points above third when 1 point above would have secured 2nd place. I have already explained all this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: Fair enough. Looking at the standard of teams this season and no real stand out side yet aside from Wolves I think it may well be a low year for finishing in the automatic spots. We'll see. Maybe, I doubt it though. ive posted the figure for the last 10 years, with the exception of 2 years with lows of 79 the variance is between 83 & 89, if anything the trend shows increasing points totals for the 2nd place sides. Personally I think 88-89 feels about right for 2nd place this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: Had Brighton got 86 last season they would have finished second. Same would apply on a lot of those other season you listed where the team in second fished 4,5,6,7 etc points above third when 1 point above would have secured 2nd place. I have already explained all this though. That a bit of flawed way of looking at it though as you are effectively adding a non existing team into the league without them having fixtures. You can only really look at the real points totals achieved by teams finishing 2nd, I think looking at it your way is a little false to be honest mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: Had Brighton got 86 last season they would have finished second. Same would apply on a lot of those other season you listed where the team in second fished 4,5,6,7 etc points above third when 1 point above would have secured 2nd place. I have already explained all this though. Yes and I’ve already explained it’s gobbledegook in my opinion. You simply can’t say what you are saying as fact it doesn’t work that way - it’s opinion and as such fair enough and all that but it isn’t factual. The fact is that teams getting 86 points don’t usually get automatic promotion. That is an actual good old fashioned fact. Hardly any side has got promoted automatically with 86 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: That a bit of flawed way of looking at it though as you are effectively adding a non existing team into the league without them having fixtures. You can only really look at the real points totals achieved by teams finishing 2nd, I think looking at it your way is a little false to be honest mate. I am so relieved to hear that I feel like I’m going mad lol !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Crikey I wish I'd never mentioned to finish second you have to finish one point above third and not 2,3,4,5,6,7..... as teams have done in the past. I'd take a friendly wager for charity with anyone now that the team in third this season won't get more than 86 points meaning 87, or 86 on GD, would be enough for second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, markavfc40 said: Crikey I wish I'd never mentioned to finish second you have to finish one point above third and not 2,3,4,5,6,7..... as teams have done in the past. I'd take a friendly wager for charity with anyone now that the team in third this season won't get more than 86 points meaning 87, or 86 on GD, would be enough for second. I’ll take the wager £20 to a charity if any team gets automatic promotion from this League this season with 86 or fewer points. At least some good will come of this lol And fwiwi can also wish I’d never looked at what teams who finish second get and ludicrously suggest it’s what we need !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: That a bit of flawed way of looking at it though as you are effectively adding a non existing team into the league without them having fixtures. You can only really look at the real points totals achieved by teams finishing 2nd, I think looking at it your way is a little false to be honest mate. I don't know mate maybe I am confusing myself now Reading did play in the league last season, played the same fixtures as Brighton and finished 7 points behind on 85. Therefore had Brighton took 86 points they'd have still got second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 You know I actually thought I’ll just stick to quoting stats, records, and facts now it should remove all the arguments..... Thatll teach me !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, terrytini said: I’ll take the wager £20 to a charity if any team gets automatic promotion from this League this season with 86 or fewer points. At least some good will come of this lol And fwiwi can also wish I’d never looked at what teams who finish second get and ludicrously suggest it’s what we need !! So if Villa finish second on 88 and say Leeds finish third on 84 meaning 85 points would have been enough for second the 20 quid is going to my charity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: I don't know mate maybe I am confusing myself now Reading did play in the league last season, played the same fixtures as Brighton and finished 7 points behind on 85. Therefore had Brighton took 86 points they'd have still got second. Where the handshake on that bet you confused old fool ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 None of this matters anyway, Bruce isn't getting 86 points. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, markavfc40 said: So if Villa finish second on 88 and say Leeds finish third on 84 meaning 85 points would have been enough for second the 20 quid is going to my charity? Ha ha ha ha !! See what you did there ? Case proved I think ? I said no team will get promoted automatically on 86 points !! You say it’s enough That is the whole debate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: So if Villa finish second on 88 and say Leeds finish third on 84 meaning 85 points would have been enough for second the 20 quid is going to my charity? I'd save that £20 for your ride home....... TAXI!!!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fightoffyour Posted October 16, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I don't know mate maybe I am confusing myself now Reading did play in the league last season, played the same fixtures as Brighton and finished 7 points behind on 85. Therefore had Brighton took 86 points they'd have still got second. Brighton got 93 points. If they had got 89 points instead then they could have achieved this by losing twice to Reading, rather than by beating and drawing with them, thus giving Reading 89 points and 2nd place being decided on GD (disclaimer: Brighton have +30 GD over Reading in the final standings, so Reading would have to have beaten Brighton by a combined total of 15 goals). This is just one example of how the points would have to be redistributed if Brighton didn't get what they did get for 2nd place. Taking it further, if Brighton had lost another game that they won, and finished on 86 points, they could clearly be 3rd behind Reading. Edited October 16, 2017 by fightoffyour 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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